[EL] Check out Study shows who breaks campaign laws - ThePueblo Chieftai...

Wed Aug 10 12:23:52 PDT 2011

Absolutely it is a victory for the average citizen.  Respecting rights in
others is the best way to ensure one's own.

But I'll play the instrumentalist game for a moment:  There is a study, by
Ansolabehere I believe, that says people prefer more speech in elections to
less, and prefer more information in elections to less.

- Steve

On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Trevor Potter <tpotter at capdale.com> wrote:

> For many years people of average means pooled their funds and contributed
> “small” sums (in the greater scheme of things) to political parties and
> political committees—PACS. Those parties and PACS pooled the funds and
> amplified the voices of average citizens. Wisconsin Right to Life and
> Citizens United had that option too, but they served as  stalking horses for
> other interests, so they instead demanded the courts recognize a
>  constitutional right to limitless participation in the political process
> through their treasury funds, and corporate funds they received.****
>
> ** **
>
> So, thanks to Mr. Bopp and others, we now have a world in which the big
> players—the corporations and billionaires-- have the same ability to
> influence the system that the “citizens of average means” had before—but
> with far less accountability and disclosure. A victory for the “average
> citizen”? Seems Alice in Wonderland to me…****
>
> ** **
>
> Trevor Potter****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *
> JBoppjr at aol.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2011 2:45 PM
> *To:* rhasen at law.uci.edu
> *Cc:* law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Check out Study shows who breaks campaign laws -
> ThePueblo Chieftai...****
>
> ** **
>
> While I don't know what "reformers" whisper in Rick's ear, "reformers" have
> been quite open and candid that there is a great big list of people they
> want to shut up -- foreigners, the Wylie Brothers, all corporations,
> "outside interests," Citizens United, Wisconsin Right to Life, "special
> interests," etc etc etc. Most, but not all, of these are people of average
> means or made up of people of average means. They have never said that that
> bothers them one whit.  Jim Bopp****
>
>  ****
>
> In a message dated 8/10/2011 1:26:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> rhasen at law.uci.edu writes:****
>
> Jim,
>
> Do you really believe reformers' goals are "to drive citizens of average
> means out of our political system?"  That certainly does not match up with
> my experience in talking to people who are strongly in favor of regulation.
> Usually they express to me concerns about large money corrupting the system,
> concerns about inequality/lack of a level playing field, or concerns about
> the high costs of campaigns.  I cannot recall a single conversation over
> many years of speaking with reform-minded individuals who ever--publicly or
> privately--expressed a desire to drive citizens of average means out of our
> political system.
>
> That's not to say that complex laws cannot have this effect.  I believe
> they can, and that to the extent that campaign finance laws do so, they need
> to be changed.  But you suggest a motive for such laws which seems so off
> from reality that I'm not sure if you are serious.
>
> Rick
>
> On 8/10/2011 10:19 AM, JBoppjr at aol.com wrote: ****
>
> Click here: Study shows who breaks campaign laws - The Pueblo Chieftain:
> Local<http://www.chieftain.com/news/local/study-shows-who-breaks-campaign-laws/article_9cf187fc-c185-11e0-baff-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story>
> ****
>
>  ****
>
>  “Our office did a study and looked at who pays campaign finance fines, who
> doesn’t, who violates the law a lot, things like that,” said Secretary of
> State Scott Gessler. “And the bottom line is this: Volunteers and
> grass-roots groups are far more likely to run afoul of the law because the
> law is so complex. Large, big-money groups are able to hire attorneys and
> accountants and pay very, very few fines.”****
>
>  ****
>
> But this is the purpose of campaign finance laws -- to drive citizens of
> average means out of our political system. Nice to see it is working. The
> "reformers" will be very pleased, I am sure.  Jim Bopp****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Rick Hasen
> Professor of Law and Political Science
> UC Irvine School of Law
> 401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
> Irvine, CA 92697-8000
> 949.824.3072 - office
> 949.824.0495 - fax
> rhasen at law.uci.edu
> http://law.uci.edu/faculty/page1_r_hasen.html
> http://electionlawblog.org****
>
>
>
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-- 
Stephen M. Hoersting
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