[EL] An Electoral College Tie?
Rob Richie
rr at fairvote.org
Thu Dec 15 11:57:42 PST 2011
Yes, that's wrong, Frank. Getting rid of human electors would take a
constitutional amendment.
But again, NPV is not going to change the voting behavior of electors.
Let's say the compact is in place, with heavily Democratic Massachusetts a
participating state. If a Republican wins the national popular vote, it
will be that Republican candidate's Massachusetts electors who will earn
the state's electoral votes. They will happily (and quietly, as hardly
anyone notices what electors do) vote for their candidate come December.
Lots of info about all the particulars at the NationalPopularVote.com
website.
Rob
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:52 PM, Frank Askin <faskin at kinoy.rutgers.edu>wrote:
> I was under then impression that under the National Popular Vote Plan,
> there would no longer be individual Electors - that electoral votes
> would be assigned automatically. Do I have that wrong? FRANK
>
>
>
>
> Prof. Frank Askin
> Distinguished Professor of Law and Director
> Constitutional Litigation Clinic
> Rutgers Law School/Newark
> (973) 353-5687>>> Rob Richie <rr at fairvote.org> 12/15/2011 2:36 PM >>>
> To pick up on a couple points/questions:
>
> 1. Relating to Jerry Goldeder's email about faithless electors, once
> the
> National Popular Vote plan is in place, the electors casting votes in
> a
> state in the NPV compact would be associated with the national popular
> vote
> winner. They have no more likelihood of being "faithless" than
> electors
> under the current system.
>
> 2. Relating to Richard's point, here's an excerpt from a short report
> we
> did on the 918 gubernatorial elections from 1948 to 2009:
>
> http://www.fairvote.org/majority-and-plurality-in-u-s-gubernatorial-elections#.TupK1TVAaRg
>
>
> In a FairVote study of all gubernatorial general elections over a
> 62-year
> span (1948-2009) – 918 total races – it was found that in 90.4
> percent of
> races, the winner received an outright majority of all votes cast.
> Among
> the other races, 7.2 percent were won with 45-49.9 percent of votes
> cast,
> 1.1 percent were won with 40-44.9 percent of votes cast, and 1.3
> percent
> were won with 35-39.9 percent of votes. No races were won with less
> than 35
> percent of the total vote. Most recently, of the 16 gubernatorial
> general
> elections nationwide between 2007 and 2009, one (Christopher Christie
> of
> New Jersey in 2009 – 48.8 percent) was won with less than an
> outright
> majority of votes.
>
> - Rob
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Richard Winger
> <richardwinger at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > I don't believe we should be so frightened of the idea that a
> winning
> > presidential candidate might have received only 40% of the total
> popular
> > vote. 45 of the 50 states elect their Governors like that. Whoever
> gets
> > the most votes wins, period. Louisiana, Washington, California and
> Georgia
> > force a majority vote by having a round with only two candidates on
> the
> > ballot, and Vermont lets the legislature choose when no one gets a
> majority
> > for Governor. In the other 45 states, a winning gubernatorial
> candidate
> > just needs more votes than anyone else.
> >
> > The lowest share of the popular vote any winning gubernatorial
> candidate
> > ever got in the last 170 years was in Washington state in 1912, when
> the
> > Democratic nominee, Ernest Lister, won with only 30.6% of the
> popular
> > vote. In that election, the Republican nominee got 30.4% and the
> > Progressive nominee got 24.4%.
> >
> > Richard Winger
> > 415-922-9779
> > PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147
> >
> > --- On *Thu, 12/15/11, Scarberry, Mark
> <Mark.Scarberry at pepperdine.edu>*wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Scarberry, Mark <Mark.Scarberry at pepperdine.edu>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [EL] An Electoral College Tie?
> > To: "law-election at department-lists.uci.edu" <
> > law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
> > Date: Thursday, December 15, 2011, 11:02 AM
> >
> >
> > In such a case, would we really want the national plurality vote
> winner
> > (perhaps with 40% of the vote) to become President?
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps if no candidate receives a majority of the electoral vote
> then,
> > instead of the current system or the national popular vote system,
> there
> > should be a choice of the President either by a joint session of
> Congress
> > or by vote of the House (with each member having one vote).
> >
> >
> >
> > Of course that would require a constitutional amendment, but in my
> view it
> > would also take a constitutional amendment to move to a popular vote
> > system, at least to one that has a blackout period like the proposed
> NPVIC.
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark S. Scarberry
> >
> > Pepperdine Univ. School of Law
> >
> > Malibu, CA 90263
> >
> > (310)506-4667
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
> > law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *Justin
> > Levitt
> > *Sent:* Thursday, December 15, 2011 10:23 AM
> > *To:* law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> > *Subject:* Re: [EL] An Electoral College Tie?
> >
> >
> >
> > It's not just a tie that could send the election to the House of
> > Representatives ... I believe it's any lack of a majority. If, for
> > example, the Americans Elect candidate wins enough electoral votes
> to
> > deprive either the Republican nominee or the Democratic nominee of
> an
> > Electoral College majority, the House decides the election.
> >
> > Justin
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Justin Levitt
> >
> > Associate Professor of Law
> >
> > Loyola Law School | Los Angeles
> >
> > 919 Albany St.
> >
> > Los Angeles, CA 90015
> >
> > 213-736-7417
> >
> > justin.levitt at lls.edu <http://mc/compose?to=justin.levitt@lls.edu>
> >
> > ssrn.com/author=698321
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/15/2011 9:37 AM, Dan Johnson wrote:
> >
> > I'd love to see opponents of the National Popular Vote mount a
> robust
> > defense of the House of Representatives in a
> one-vote-per-state-delegation
> > selecting the President (the result of a not-implausible tie in
> electoral
> > votes).
> >
> >
> >
> > Because, after all, that is what they are defending. A tie will
> eventually
> > occur. Let us hope that the National Popular Vote compact is
> established
> > and confirmed by the Supreme Court before that mathematical certainty
> rears
> > its ugly head.
> >
> >
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Rick Hasen
> <rhasen at law.uci.edu<http://mc/compose?to=rhasen@law.uci.edu>>
> > wrote:
> > “An Electoral College Tie?”
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=26579>
> >
> > Posted on December 15, 2011 9:18 am
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=26579>by Rick
> > Hasen <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
> >
> > *National Journal*
> ponders<
> http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2011/12/an-electoral-college-tie.php>
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dan Johnson
> >
> > Partner
> >
> > Korey Cotter Heater and Richardson, LLC
> >
> > 111 West Washington, Suite 1920
> > Chicago, Illinois 60602
> >
> > http://www.kchrlaw.com
> >
> >
> > 312.867.5377 (office)
> > 312.933.4890 (mobile)
> > 312.794.7064 (fax)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Law-election mailing list
> >
> > Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> <http://mc/compose?to=Law-election@department-lists.uci.edu>
> >
> > http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Justin Levitt
> >
> > Associate Professor of Law
> >
> > Loyola Law School | Los Angeles
> >
> > 919 Albany St.
> >
> > Los Angeles, CA 90015
> >
> > 213-736-7417
> >
> > justin.levitt at lls.edu <http://mc/compose?to=justin.levitt@lls.edu>
> >
> > ssrn.com/author=698321
> >
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >
> >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "Respect for Every Vote and Every Voice"
>
> Rob Richie
> Executive Director
>
> FairVote
> 6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 610
> Takoma Park, MD 20912
> www.fairvote.org <http://www.fairvote.org> rr at fairvote.org
> (301) 270-4616
>
> Please support FairVote through action and tax-deductible donations --
> see
> http://fairvote.org/donate. For federal employees, please consider a
> gift
> to us through the Combined Federal Campaign (FairVote's CFC number is
> 10132.) Thank you!
>
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Respect for Every Vote and Every Voice"
Rob Richie
Executive Director
FairVote
6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 610
Takoma Park, MD 20912
www.fairvote.org <http://www.fairvote.org> rr at fairvote.org
(301) 270-4616
Please support FairVote through action and tax-deductible donations -- see
http://fairvote.org/donate. For federal employees, please consider a gift
to us through the Combined Federal Campaign (FairVote's CFC number is
10132.) Thank you!
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