[EL] in-person voter fraud Washington 2004 follow up

[Paul Lehto]

A simpler, and clearly least restrictive alternative, to the alleged
problem of illegal voting would be to videotape voters at the point
where they sign in.  It should be relatively easy to have a video
camera that captures only the sign in process and not the voting
process, if that's even possible and is of concern.  Illegal voting
can then be more readily prosecuted (and deterred via the camera if it
is visible) after the fact, properly allowing the exercise of the
right of voting and prosecuting for any abuse of that right after the
fact, thus not chilling the exercise of the vote itself.

Paul Lehto, J.D.

P.S. A well-designed political ad campaign by non-voters such as
foreigners or corporations will affect more votes than illegal voting
can hope to, yet the same people often times who express such high
concern about illegal voting, when it comes to political influence by
foreigners or corporations, suddenly have zero concern about the
integrity of the franchise, or of restricting debate to those who are
members of the "association" known as We the People.   And then, when
it comes to the associational rights of subgroups of We the People
such as political parties, these same folks rather strongly defend the
associational rights of parties and other groups to exclude
non-members from all participation, specifically including but not
limited to speech-participation.  Not every person has these three
positions simultaneously, but quite many do.  Can anyone explain the
tension here?

On 7/31/11, Michael McDonald <mmcdon at gmu.edu> wrote:
> If there were a massive amount of voter fraud occurring that could be
> prevented with photo id, wouldn't turnout rates go down following the
> imposition of photo id? Yet, proponents often tout that turnout went up
> following adoption of photo id.
>
> One might conclude that photo id works poorly in that it enables massive
> fraud among those who use fake photo ids to bypass scrutiny by poll workers
> placated by the false security of being presented with a photo id. Justin
> cites one example of a person using a fake id when voting, which is
> apparently enough evidence to proclaim massive fraud via fake photo ids
> exists. Perhaps the solution to this massive fraud is that we need poll
> workers training to detect fake ids and provide them with the necessary
> detection equipment in every polling place, just like the training and
> equipment used by airport security.
>
> ============
> Dr. Michael P. McDonald
> Associate Professor, George Mason University
> Non-Resident Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution
>
>                              Mailing address:
> (o) 703-993-4191             George Mason University
> (f) 703-993-1399             Dept. of Public and International Affairs
> mmcdon at gmu.edu               4400 University Drive - 3F4
> http://elections.gmu.edu     Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of David A.
> Schultz
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:56 PM
> To: rhasen at law.uci.edu
> Cc: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> Subject: Re: [EL] in-person voter fraud Washington 2004 follow up
>
> Rick:
>
>
> Good question and you make my point.  I think studies on photo Id claiming
> that deter voter fraud run the same problem as any other study about
> criminal laws and claims that deter xyz.  It is impossible to prove
> deterrence.
>
>
> Conversely, I have yet to see a good study that really documents the impact
> of voter ID laws on suppressing voting.  I think there are research design
> issues, ecological fallacy problems, and perhaps a host of other issues that
> make it difficult to ascertain  the real impact.
>
>
> Having said that, American history is littered with many policies, enacted
> with the belief they will achieve certain results, and they do not.
>
>
> David,
> Have you applied the same examination of evidence to the question whether
> voter identification laws actually deter much voting?  The best study I've
> seen on the question indicates that the issue may not be empirically
> resolvable, at least not yet.
> Rick
> David Schultz, Professor
> Editor, Journal of Public Affairs Education (JPAE)
> Hamline University
> School of Business
> 570 Asbury Street
> Suite 308
> St. Paul, Minnesota 55104
> 651.523.2858 (voice)
> 651.523.3098 (fax)
> http://davidschultz.efoliomn.com/
> http://works.bepress.com/david_schultz/
> http://schultzstake.blogspot.com/
>>>> Rick Hasen  07/31/11 2:44 PM >>>
>
>
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-- 
Paul R Lehto, J.D.
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