[EL] Fwd: MAINE GOP UNCOVERS 19 ELECTION DAY REGISTRATIONS FROMONE MAINE...

Sun Sep 11 08:32:14 PDT 2011

Several groups are working on the "auto" registration idea, but lots of
hurdles remain; especially disturbing would be the creation of a system that
will automatically register people from one segment more than those from
another. I don't think the people in some states working to automate voter
registration with drivers licenses always think about that as much as is
needed...but slowly reformers are coming around on that. (I'm happy to talk
to people out there working on this, btw.)

Regarding where false registrations come from...don't forget that lots of
errors are made when verifying registrations, too. I've known people to find
addresses county clerks said didn't exist! Data entry error is another
source apparently false registrations, etc. Recall the NM fiasco (2008?)
where people who were citizens were accused of not being citizens...so their
false registrations weren't. Lots of false registrations are likely real,
just as with the other accusations, what percent though...I don't know. It
does make me wonder about the people who say they couldn't vote due to
registration problems...were they just wrong about what happened, were they
purged, did they register but not end up on the list, did they invert some
digits on their registration and get kickedout, did the system say their
address wasn't real? A friend here in DC said she sent in a voter
registration application two or three times in 2008 because she didn't get
her registration card in the mail...makes me wonder if she would have been
flagged as "fake" by some clerks for doing that.

Regarding paid registration workers falsifying registrations: this does
happen, faking information also happens with politicians seeking signatures
for putting their name on the ballot, and with paid petition workers for
ballot initiatives, and it happens with Census Bureau's temporary workers.
In fact, they even have a name for it at Census: "curbstoning"...the worker
sits on the curbstone of the block they are suppose to work and just fills
in fake information for the household where they cannot find anybody home.
>From Census data, we see that lots of people are registered through drives,
so the decimation of them in low-income neighborhoods is rather disturbing.

Doug Hess
202-277-6400 (cell)

On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Soren Dayton <soren.dayton at gmail.com>wrote:

> I wonder why, in this electronic age, we also don't remove people when they
> move, die, etc. How many Secretary of States have stood in violation of
> HAVA? When you have people like Carnahan who simply refused and people like
> Brunner who sued counties to stop them from doing the job she wouldn't...
>
> On the turning 18 point, it is clear that actually establishing where
> people maintain residence for purposes of voting is not simple.
>
> A lot of countries don't have quite as many local elected offices that only
> people who live in those constituencies are eligible for. And many countries
> also don't allow access to voter lists or direct communication with voters
> by mail or phone calls.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Douglas Carver <dhmcarver at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> In response to Trevor's third point, I often wonder why, in this
>> electronic age, we do not automatically register people to vote when
>> they turn 18, thus obviating the need for voter registration drives.
>> Many other countries successfully do this.
>>
>> In response to what Jim wrote, it would have been nice to see an
>> acknowledgement that the Maine GOP press release -- to give them the
>> benefit of the doubt -- had its facts wrong.
>>
>> Douglas Carver
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 11, 2011 at 5:43 AM, Trevor Potter <tpotter at capdale.com>
>> wrote:
>> > 1.) As this thread illustrates,  there is no consensus that false or
>> inaccurate registrations leads to false voting.
>> > 2.) At least one reason for false registration is the pressure to
>> produce results in third-party voter registration efforts, where
>> registration-gatherers are paid for results.
>> > 3.) If we had better voter lists, something possible in the electronic
>> age, and a greater role for electronic technology in putting registrations
>> into the system and checking information on voter lists, we could greatly
>> diminish the possibility of false registrations and alleviate the need for
>> these voter registration drives.
>> >
>> > Trevor Potter
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu on behalf of
>> JBoppjr at aol.com
>> > Sent: Sun 9/11/2011 7:35 AM
>> > To: douglasrhess at gmail.com; Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>> > Subject: Re: [EL] Fwd: MAINE GOP UNCOVERS 19 ELECTION DAY REGISTRATIONS
>> FROMONE MAINE...
>> >
>> >
>> > Of course I don't know if this situation is true here or not, and maybe
>> not, but one of my experiences, that all seem to acknowledge and that I draw
>> on, is false registrations.  If they were false, it seems that requiring a
>> voter ID would likely prevent voting based on the false registration.  There
>> are many documented cases of false registrations, so why isnt this a remedy
>> to prevent voting based on the false registration?  And if the intent behind
>> false registration isn't voting based on them, what would it be?  Jim Bopp
>> >
>> > In a message dated 9/10/2011 9:01:46 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> douglasrhess at gmail.com writes:
>> >
>> >
>> >        Thanks for Megan, et al. for following up on the ME case (or
>> non-case).
>> >
>> >        My first thought was that this was another example of ID
>> proponents only going with their own experience: most of us only stay at
>> hotels for short stays, so these people must be the same. My first thought
>> was that these were likely employees of some firm or business who were in
>> the state for an extended off and on again stay...maybe they knew they were
>> going to be in the state for the days/weeks around election in thought this
>> was the best way to vote. Or even campaign workers who decided that after
>> several months in the state they might as well vote there (nothing illegal
>> about that...is there?). My final thought was that homeless can use as their
>> address a location where they get mail, even if they don't sleep there. If
>> the hotel was in an area with lots of poverty, this address might serve that
>> purpose.
>> >
>> >        Lots of possibilities...did the GOP in Maine make a statement
>> regarding the explanation given my the Dems there?
>> >
>> >        [Note: I cut the text from the thread because it was doing
>> something odd in gmail with the length of lines.]
>> >
>> >        -Doug
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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