[EL] deaths after voting by mail
Chad and Cori Jacobs
jacobscc at hotmail.com
Wed Aug 15 15:04:46 PDT 2012
At some point in the process it will be impossible to separate the deceased person's vote from other votes - some jurisdictions permit election officials to separate secrecy envelopes from the return envelopes and actually begin the process of counting ballots before election day - in Oregon, where we have vote by mail elections, that can happen seven days before the election (ORS 254.478) - once the envelopes are separated it would be impossible to know which ballot contained the deceased person's vote.
Regards,
Chad
On Aug 15, 2012, at 1:54 PM, "Adam Bonin" <adam at boninlaw.com> wrote:
> Under PA law, absentee ballots are not supposed to be counted if the voter
> died before the polls open, but if they do count it that's okay. 25 P.S.
> 3146.8(d): "Whenever it shall appear by due proof that any absentee elector
> who has returned his ballot in accordance with the provisions of this act
> has died prior to the opening of the polls on the day of the primary or
> election, the ballot of such deceased elector shall be rejected by the
> canvassers but the counting of the ballot of an elector thus deceased shall
> not of itself invalidate any nomination or election."
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Riemer,
> Justin (SBE)
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2012 2:06 PM
> To: Lillie Coney; Lowenstein, Daniel
> Cc: 'Doug Hess'; 'Election Law'
> Subject: Re: [EL] deaths after voting by mail
>
> Virginia enacted legislation in 2011 to explicitly allow for the counting of
> absentee ballots by individuals who vote absentee and die before Election
> Day. Please see link here:
> http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+ful+CHAP0654
>
> The legislation passed unanimously.
>
>
> Justin Riemer
> Deputy Secretary
> Virginia State Board of Elections
> Office Phone: (804) 864-8904
> Mobile: (804) 366-5330
> SBE Website: http://www.sbe.virginia.gov
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Lillie
> Coney
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:21 PM
> To: Lowenstein, Daniel
> Cc: 'Doug Hess'; 'Election Law'
> Subject: Re: [EL] deaths after voting by mail
>
> In my view, absentee ballots cast by persons prior to their death should be
> treated like dying declarations.
>
> There are very few ballots that fall into this category and their treatment
> should be with the utmost respect for the intent to the voter to have their
> voice heard--many of them knowing that they would not see election day. The
> tools are available for voters to cast ballots in this method and overtime
> states have become aware that voters who cast absentee or early voting
> ballots can die before election day -- accidents, sudden or succumbing to
> long term illnesses.
>
> It is left to each state to decide how they will deal with votes cast prior
> to an election by a person who later dies. The only question for the
> process is did the voter cast the ballot--this is especially important for
> terminally ill patients in residential or hospice care.. This may be
> resolvable by a witness' signature preferably a medical care advocate on the
> exterior of the ballot envelop--not need to expose the ballot to a third
> party only the attestation that the person can under terms of state election
> law freely cast an independent ballot.
>
> This last suggestion is to guard against very close elections when the
> number of these ballots fall within the margin of victory.
>
> Lillie Coney
>
> On Aug 3, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Lowenstein, Daniel wrote:
>
>> I am reminded of G.K. Chesterton, who observed that some so-called
> democrats (small "d," of course) took pride in believing that participation
> in government should not be determined by the accident of birth, but went
> further by insisting that participation should not be determined by the
> accident of death.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Daniel H. Lowenstein
>> Director, Center for the Liberal Arts and Free Institutions
> (CLAFI)
>> UCLA Law School
>> 405 Hilgard
>> Los Angeles, California 90095-1476
>> 310-825-5148
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
>> [law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Mayer
>> [kmayer at polisci.wisc.edu]
>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:59 AM
>> To: 'Steve Kolbert'; 'Doug Hess'
>> Cc: 'Election Law'
>> Subject: Re: [EL] deaths after voting by mail
>>
>> Short answer: not enough votes to worry about, there's nothing that could
> be done if there were, and even if something could be done, it wouldn't be
> right. By any reasonable definition, a vote is a vote when it is cast, no
> matter what happens to the voter subsequently.
>>
>> In Oregon, according to the Public Health division, about 2,500-2,900
> people die in a typical
> month<http://public.health.oregon.gov/BirthDeathCertificates/VitalStatistics
> /FinalData/Documents/10/deathmo.pdf>, with about 98% of those deaths
> occurring in the voting age
> population<http://public.health.oregon.gov/BirthDeathCertificates/VitalStati
> stics/FinalData/Documents/10/deathage.pdf>. Turnout as a percentage of VAP
> in 2008 was 63% according to Michael McDonald's United States Election
> Project<http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2008G.html>. If we assume that
> deaths over a month are evenly distributed, and that votes are cast roughly
> evenly over the month, that gives an estimated approximate upper limit
> (back of the envelope calculation; the actual numbers will be slightly
> different, but not by enough to worry about) of the number of votes
> potentially cast by people who died before election day as:
>>
>> 2,900*.98*.63*.5 = 895 votes
>>
>> The key quantity here isn't this number, but the margin of victory for the
> winning candidate among these voters. An election would have to be pretty
> close for this to make a difference, but let's say these voters went 60%-40%
> for a candidate in a two candidate race. That 20% margin reduces this 895
> votes to 179 votes. That could make a difference in a really tight race,
> but there aren't many statewide races decided by this margin.
>>
>> But it doesn't really make any difference, because for these votes to be
> rejected, you'd have to hang on to every vote until you got confirmation
> that the voter had actually died, which is not workable.
>>
>> This isn't different than a voter who casts a ballot on election day, but
> who dies (or moves to another state) before the results are certified.
>>
>> Ken Mayer
>>
>>
>> Kenneth R. Mayer
>> Professor, Department of Political Science Affiliate Faculty, La
>> Follette School of Public Affairs University of Wisconsin - Madison
>> 110 North Hall/1050 Bascom Mall
>> Madison, WI 53706
>> (608) 263-2286 (voice)/ (608) 265-2663 (fax)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
>> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of
>> Steve Kolbert
>> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 11:09 AM
>> To: Doug Hess
>> Cc: Election Law
>> Subject: Re: [EL] deaths after voting by mail
>>
>>
>> You can find a discussion of the applicable Virginia law in Op. Va.
>> Att'y Gen. 10-104 (Oct. 26, 2010), available at
>> http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions%20and%20Legal%20Resources/OPINIONS
>> /2010opns/10-104-Lind.pdf
>>
>> SUMMARY:
>> When a general registrar knows an absentee voter has died prior to
> election day, but after having voted by absentee ballot, the registrar must
> cancel that voter's registration, and the absentee ballot should not be
> counted; but that in those circumstances in which absentee ballots are cast
> prior to election day in a manner by which the absentee ballot no longer can
> be set aside, the general registrar who knows of the voter's death shall
> cancel that voter's registration, but election officials are not otherwise
> required to perform the impossible task of not counting the deceased voter's
> ballot.
>>
>> Steve Kolbert
>> (202) 422-2588
>> steve.kolbert at gmail.com<mailto:steve.kolbert at gmail.com>
>> @Pronounce_the_T
>> On Aug 3, 2012 11:54 AM, "Doug Hess"
> <douglasrhess at gmail.com<mailto:douglasrhess at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Let's say you vote by mail and then kick the bucket before ballots are
> counted or before election day. Assuming election officials notice this
> about you and spot your ballot, do laws or regulations address counting that
> ballot? I assume that if you were eligible to vote when you did, that dieing
> before ballots are counted doesn't matter.
>>
>> If an election is entirely by mail and you can get ballots 30 days in
> advance (is that standard?), just how many adults go six feet under in that
> period. I'm wondering--for Friday amusement partially--if the number or
> percentage is enough that the dead can determine an outcome?
>>
>> Doug
>>
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