[EL] accountability and disclosure
JBoppjr at aol.com
JBoppjr at aol.com
Fri Jun 1 12:01:26 PDT 2012
Ok, I will bite. Yes; yes; a fact is a fact, not a matter of opinion, and
regardless of what the government says about it; no. And I don't think
that I am the one answering these questions has anything to do with whether
these answers are correct or not. Jim
In a message dated 6/1/2012 2:23:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
jonathanhsinger at gmail.com writes:
Jim, I know the answer first four questions in your set. What are the
answers to the remainder?
On Fri, Jun 1, 2012 at 1:56 PM, <_JBoppjr at aol.com_ (mailto:JBoppjr at aol.com)
> wrote:
Why should this be the choice of the government rather than the speaker
and listener?
It seems to me that the First Amendment makes that the speaker's and
listener's choice. If the speaker wants to risk the fact that some will
ignore her if she is anonymous then that is a risk she takes. If it is up to
the government, then the effect is to ban those speakers who won't speak
unless they can do it anonymously.
In addition, I for one am willing to listen to some anonymous speech -- I
have read the Federalist Papers. But I am skeptical of some anonymous
speech, like the anonymous letters we often get here before some contested
Democrat primary saying scandalous things about one candidate or another. Why
isn't that also the listener's choice?
Making it the government's choice means anonymous speech is banned for
those who will only speak anonymous, even though some would listen to
them.
It also seems to me that the identity of the speaker is also
irrelevant to most arguments. Does 2 plus 2 equal 4? Does the sun come up in the
morning? Is water H2O? Did the Holocaust happen? Is Obama a socialist?
Does abortion kill an unborn child? Why is one thing a fact if Joe says it,
but not if Pam says it? Or are all facts just a matter of opinion or true
if the government says so? See 1984. Jim Bopp
In a message dated 6/1/2012 1:28:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_mmcdon at gmu.edu_ (mailto:mmcdon at gmu.edu) writes:
It was the idea of the authors of the Federalist Papers not to disclose
their identity so that others could not attack their arguments on a
personal
level, on what they personally could gain or lose in successful or failed
ratification of the constitution. The disclosure argument today mirrors
that
strategic choice: is public discussion more or less informative to the
general public if the identity of the speaker is known?
============
Dr. Michael P. McDonald
Associate Professor, George Mason University
Non-Resident Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution
Mailing address:
(o) _703-993-4191_ (tel:703-993-4191) George Mason University
(f) _703-993-1399_ (tel:703-993-1399) Dept. of Public and
International Affairs
_mmcdon at gmu.edu_ (mailto:mmcdon at gmu.edu) 4400 University Drive
- 3F4
_http://elections.gmu.edu_ (http://elections.gmu.edu/) Fairfax, VA
22030-4444
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[mailto:_law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu) ] On Behalf Of Smith,
Brad
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 1:00 PM
To: _law-election at uci.edu_ (mailto:law-election at uci.edu)
Subject: Re: [EL] accountability and disclosure
Of course, in this example, there is no evidence at all of a) corrupt
politicians; b) corrupt spenders; or c) foreign money (although if there
were foreign money, it is highly unlikely it would be disclosed), and d)
there is no evidence that this makes creates a better informed public (note
that the idea of the federalist papers was that that the busy public would
better evaluate the message if it DID NOT know who it came from). So we see
here all the problems of overly broad disclosure regimes.
We can't ban guns because some people commit crimes with them; we can't ban
speech because some people defame others; we can't ban juries because they
sometimes let the guilty go free, and so on.
That said, for reasons I won't elaborate on here, I do believe that some
disclosure can be justified. Unfortunately, the current effort is a push
for
broader disclosure than the courts have traditionally upheld, primarily for
the purpose of fostering private harassment of speakers (even if it's
relatively low levels of harassment that don't equate to sending SWAT teams
to kill you), with very little added informational value.
Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault
Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
_614.236.6317_ (tel:614.236.6317)
_http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx_
(http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx)
________________________________________
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[_law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu) ] on behalf of Rick Hasen
[_rhasen at law.uci.edu_ (mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu) ]
Sent: Friday, June 01, 2012 12:37 PM
To: _law-election at uci.edu_ (mailto:law-election at uci.edu)
Subject: [EL] accountability and disclosure
Great illustration of the need for accountability. Note how the Koch
brothers and others try to hide behind the anodyne "Center for Patients
Rights" and funnel the money through numerous organizations to mask their
involvement.
The busy public will evaluate campaign messages better knowing who they
really came from. And disclosure can make it harder for corrupt
politicians
and spenders to escape scrutiny. At it ensures that foreign money---which
the Supreme Court tells us is perfectly constitutional to BAN because of
the
IDENTITY of the speaker--stays out of our elections.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject:
Washington Post Column By Ruth Marcus: An End Run Around Campaign Finance
Laws
Date:
Fri, 1 Jun 2012 12:25:53 -0400
From:
<_wertheimer at democracy21.org_ (mailto:wertheimer at democracy21.org) >
Reply-To:
<_ekesler at democracy21.org_ (mailto:ekesler at democracy21.org) >
To:
Rick Hasen <_rhasen at law.uci.edu_ (mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu) >
_________________________________________________________________
Democracy 21 News Release, June 1, 2012, _www.democracy21.org_
(http://www.democracy21.org/)
_________________________________________________________________
-NOTE TO THE MEDIA-
Enclosed for your review is a Washington Post column published May 31, 2012
by Ruth Marcus, entitled "An end run around campaign finance laws."
An end run around campaign finance laws
By Ruth Marcus
May 31, 2012
To grasp the clear and present danger that the current flood of campaign
cash poses to American democracy, consider the curious case of Post Office
Box 72465. It demonstrates that the explosion of super PAC spending is only
the second-most troubling development of recent campaign cycles.
Box 72465, on a desert road near Phoenix, belongs to a little-known group
called the Center to Protect Patient Rights. According to reports by the
Center for Responsive Politics and the Los Angeles Times, the center
funneled more than $55 million to 26 Republican-leaning groups during the
2010 midterm election.
Where is the money from? The Times found links to the conservative Koch
brothers, yet because the center is a nonprofit corporation, it is
impossible to know. Such groups must disclose how they distribute their
money, not who donates to them.
This privacy makes sense in the context of ordinary nonprofits. But in the
push-the-envelope world of modern campaigns, in which such groups spend
millions of dollars on thinly disguised campaign ads, the result is an end
run around the fundamental principle of campaign finance law: that voters
are entitled to know who is trying to influence elections.
Even the Supreme Court understands this: Disclosure, it wrote in its
otherwise appalling 2010 Citizens United ruling, “permits citizens and
shareholders to react to the speech of corporate entities in a proper way.
This transparency enables the electorate to make informed decisions and
give
proper weight to different speakers and messages.”
Except when, as in the case of the Center to Protect Patient Rights, the
identities — and motives — of those giving are hidden from public view.
The
center sent almost $13 million to the American Future Fund, a Des
Moines-based group that ran campaigns against two dozen Democrats in 2010.
Rep. Bruce Braley (D-Iowa) was targeted with what the Times described as “a
$2-million fusillade” of radio ads, robo-calls and mailers.
“It was almost a feeling of helplessness because there was no way to
identify who the source of the funds was,” Braley said. He won by two
percentage points, after a 29-point margin two years earlier.
The gusher of secret money that nearly toppled Braley promises to be even
more abundant this year — and the groups behind the undisclosed cash remain
determined to do whatever it takes to keep the sources hidden.
In March, ruling in a lawsuit brought by Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), a
federal judge found that the Federal Election Commission was wrong to
exempt
nonprofits and other groups that run “electioneering communications” —
advertising that names specific candidates within a short time before the
election — from having to reveal their donors.
It says something about the FEC that the agency charged with overseeing
campaign reporting would come out against disclosure.
Luckily, U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson disagreed. “Congress
intended to shine light on whoever was behind the communications bombarding
voters immediately prior to elections,” she wrote. The federal appeals
court
in Washington refused to stay the ruling while an appeal was underway.
The response from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce was telling: It would switch
its way of influencing elections rather than reveal its donors. The
chamber,
which has made itself a major political player, plans to spend more than
$50
million during the 2012 campaign.
At a breakfast with reporters this week, chamber officials said that, in
reaction to the ruling, the organization would conduct its political
spending through independent expenditures that explicitly support or oppose
particular candidates.
Such is the perverse mess that is the current campaign finance law. Under
the Citizens United ruling, corporations, such as the chamber, can make
unlimited independent expenditures. The upshot is that advertising like the
chamber’s can be even more brutal — because it won’t have to pretend to be
merely “educating” voters — and just as opaque.
Meanwhile, the American Future Fund, the organization that ran ads against
Braley, has brazenly asked the FEC to approve a different end run. The
group
contends that if its ads merely mention “the administration” or “the White
House,” they would not be attacking a “clearly identified candidate” and
therefore not subject to disclosure requirements.
This would be laughable — if it were not such a scary illustration of the
lengths to which these groups will go to avoid letting voters know who is
trying to buy their elections, and the unfortunate likelihood that they
will
succeed.
# # #
Released: June 1, 2012
Contact Kathryn Beard at _202-355-9600_ (tel:202-355-9600) or
_kbeard at democracy21.org_ (mailto:kbeard at democracy21.org) .
For the latest reform news and to access previous reports, releases, and
analysis from Democracy 21, visit _www.democracy21.org_
(http://www.democracy21.org/) .
Follow us on Twitter. Like us on Facebook.
---
You are currently subscribed to democracy21 as: _rhasen at law.uci.edu_
(mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu) .
To unsubscribe click here:
_http://cts.dundee.net/u?id=147579378.333430d376cc8050cfef6a32f802b402&n=T&l
=_
(http://cts.dundee.net/u?id=147579378.333430d376cc8050cfef6a32f802b402&n=T&l=)
democracy21&o=41193735
(It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken)
or send a blank email to
_leave-41193735-147579378.333430d376cc8050cfef6a32f802b402 at lyris.dundee.net_
(mailto:leave-41193735-147579378.333430d376cc8050cfef6a32f802b402 at lyris.dundee.net)
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
_Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu)
_http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election_
(http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election)
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
_Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu)
_http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election_
(http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election)
--
Jonathan Singer
_http://www.polising.com_ (http://www.polising.com/)
Cell: (503) 705-2952
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Listservs/law-election/attachments/20120601/2386806a/attachment.html>
View list directory