[EL] Check out New O'Keefe video: Obama campaign staffer caught helping a...

Fri Oct 12 08:49:15 PDT 2012

Dear First Amendment Ben:  

Thanks for this most illuminating post.  

So let's contrast what happens with something like the Dateline
investigation of Food Lion that you raise with what happened with the
daring fake-double-voter in Texas.  The Dateline journalists are going
undercover as grocery employees, as I recall, to document and record
preexisting patterns of criminal activity-the systematic bleaching of
meat and changing of dates on packages, for example. It was not their
idea to bleach the meat and their participation was incidental, not
instrumental, to the commission of the relevant offenss; the undercover
journalists are recording what is already taking place.   

                But the valley-girl would-be double-voter who fashions
herself a journalist (and every American has that right) brought the
entire crime with her to the campaign headquarters to an equally ditzy
staffer, who apparently had never seen anything like this before, and
then they were on their merry way to plan a "crime" (?) that there is no
evidence ever took place in that office before .

                You misunderstand me.  I'm not the one saying that this
self-styled "Reporter" should be criminally prosecuted; I doubt that
this absurd sequence of events was a crime at all.  But Mr. Bopp is
apparently treating it as one, and as something worthy of our list's
attention, unlike the far more serious allegations about far more
pervasive and troubling activity by a multi-million dollar Republican
operative.  I was just pointing out a pattern of outrageous
inconsistency, not a criminal offense.  So you can rest easy, First
Amendment Ben.

                                                                All
best,  JBR 

From: Benjamin Barr [mailto:benjamin.barr at gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 11:34 AM
To: Jamin Raskin
Cc: JBoppjr at aol.com; joseph.e.larue at gmail.com; hoersting at gmail.com;
law-election at uci.edu
Subject: Re: [EL] Check out New O'Keefe video: Obama campaign staffer
caught helping a...

Oh, Jamin-

Let's get back to reality.

Investigative journalists (they are real and need not have "Slate"
badges or flow from the halls of Columbia) enjoy a variety of privileges
when investigating potentially illegal conduct.  Think back to the many
useful purposes of Dateline and Primetime investigations into
allegations at Food Lion, child predators, medical fraud, and the like.
The common refrain stemming from all of these acts is that while some of
the investigative journalists were nudging or encouraging potentially
illegal conduct, it would be very difficult to find the specific intent
on behalf of a journalist to actually complete a crime or have another
complete a crime since their purpose is to illustrate the potential or
existence of illegal conduct.  Thus, recognizing this worthwhile
function, investigative journalists have been immune from invasion of
privacy suits, claims of fraud, and excluded from criminal prosecutions
against the parties-in-chief since they could adequately illustrate
their intent and innocence in these actions.

Some people might not like James or Project Veritas, but there's no
reason to think he's not an investigative journalist or that his work
isn't in the same line of investigative reporting as ABC.  I'm not aware
of an exception to journalistic privileges just because you investigate
voter fraud.

Now, something entirely different happens when a third party seems giddy
(as does the DNC agent in the Veritas video) to commit a crime and
actually takes steps to commit criminal acts.  The intent difference
matters remarkably, since the DNC agent doesn't enjoy any investigative
immunity - she's there to get people voting, even twice or thrice, it
would seem, and cannot fall back on the protective immunity enjoyed by
an undercover investigator in the field. 

Shouldn't we be celebrating the investigation of crimes against voting
integrity just as courts laud the efforts of investigative journalists
against other entities?  Since the police and other investigative arms
are overworked, it comes down to the rightful civil actions of concerned
citizens, activists, and investigative journalists to step in and
uncover what the government does not have the resources to accomplish.
I think we can all celebrate that.

Forward,

First Amendment Ben

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Jamin Raskin <raskin at wcl.american.edu>
wrote:

Mr. Bopp:  If this ridiculous case wasn't totally "concocted," as I
wrote, do you mean to say that the self-proclaimed "reporter," who
instigated the whole conversation and proposed the crime, is actually
guilty of the criminal offense of voter fraud?  If this was voter fraud,
both parties must be guilty of it, no?  Indeed, isn't the person who
actually casts two ballots more guilty than the accomplice?  Of course,
if this is not voter fraud, then neither party is guilty.  (Criminal
attempt presents other issues.) Recall that the "reporter" who was
apparently in on the joke and instigated the whole thing, after all, is
not a police officer or FBI agent who has the right to participate in
criminal activity to catch others.  So either the ludicrous
conversations caught on tape constitute a crime and both individuals are
part of it, or it was no crime at all.  Surely you do not mean to
"defend" or "justify" a private person's creation and commission of an
actual crime just to catch a confederate--or do you?  Do I have the
right to organize the robbery of a convenience store just so I can get
you involved and prove that you have the predisposition even if you've
never done it before?  This is weird.  I know of no legal doctrine that
would give me a defense in that case.

In any event, I wasn't writing about the RNC, which obviously did the
right thing politically and morally too, in dumping Mr. Sproul; I was
curious about why we experienced the radio silence about Sproul on this
list over the last week of all those, like you, who are jumping on this
transparently concocted case of two valley girls talking about how
"hilarious" they are going to be.  There are real, actual cases of voter
registration fraud taking place in this campaign, but evidently you
prefer not to talk about it.  This distorted attitude only increases
people's sense that the concern about voter fraud by leading figures
like you is totally partisan and selective in nature.

Yours, jbr        

From: JBoppjr at aol.com [mailto:JBoppjr at aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 10:39 AM
To: Jamin Raskin; joseph.e.larue at gmail.com; hoersting at gmail.com
Cc: law-election at uci.edu
Subject: Re: [EL] Check out New O'Keefe video: Obama campaign staffer
caught helping a...

Please observe that in Sproul's case, he got fired by the RNC and is
being pursued by the cops.  That is as it should be.

Contrast that with instances of Democrat voter fraud -- it is "silly"
"concocted" didn't happen, etc.  No one defended or sought to justify
Sproul.  Jim Bopp

In a message dated 10/12/2012 10:29:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
raskin at wcl.american.edu writes:

	Actually, you didn't have to wait for this one silly and
transparently concocted case of two giggling nincompoops talking about a
phony plan to engage in voter-fraud-by-mail to vindicate your belief in
voter fraud.  You just had to have read the New York Times a week ago
about the widespread and serious allegations of real and massive voter
fraud being executed by Republican operative Nathan Sproul, whose
company has received millions of dollars from Republican entities across
the country and faces complaints from at least ten Florida counties of
registrations involving "similar signatures," "false addresses," and
registration of the dead.  See
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/us/politics/nathan-sproul-a-republican
-operative-long-trailed-by-voter-fraud-claims.html?pagewanted=all&_

	                I wonder why none of those List members
indulging in all of the sarcastic outrage this morning didn't use the
occasion of the Nathan Sproul revelations to prove their point.  Hmm.

	From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
[mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Joe
La Rue
	Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 10:13 AM
	To: Steve Hoersting
	Cc: JBoppjr at aol.com; law-election at uci.edu
	Subject: Re: [EL] Check out New O'Keefe video: Obama campaign
staffer caught helping activist v

	You beat me to it, Steve. I was going to say that. Frankly, I'm
disappointed in Jim and Ben. They've obviously not been paying attention
to the List Serve. After all, if you say it enough ("There is no such
thing as voter fraud") it MUST be true. 

	Joe
	___________________
	Joseph E. La Rue

	cell: 480.272.2715 
	email: joseph.e.larue at gmail.com

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	On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Steve Hoersting
<hoersting at gmail.com> wrote:

	There is no such thing as voter fraud.

	On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 9:56 AM, Benjamin Barr
<benjamin.barr at gmail.com> wrote:

	Thanks, Jim.  I recently signed James O'Keefe and Project
Veritas as clients.  Expect more great work on exposing voter fraud and
problems with voting integrity as we push ahead to November and beyond!
While so many allege this fraud never happen or is unlikely to, James'
work offers a great insight to reality on the ground.  Stay tuned!

	Forward,

	First Amendment Ben

	On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 9:44 AM, <JBoppjr at aol.com> wrote:

		Click here: New O'Keefe video: Obama campaign staffer
caught helping activist vote twice | The Daily Caller
<http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/10/new-okeefe-video-obama-campaign-staff
er-caught-helping-activist-vote-twice/#ixzz293I3dEts>  

		Obama campaign caught red handed participating in voter
fraud by helping voters vote in two different states in this election.
And some say there is no voter fraud!  Jim Bopp

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