[EL] Internet Voting in Canada

Wed Sep 19 13:58:54 PDT 2012

Hi Joe,

Wasn't the 2000 Democratic Primary really just a non-biding Presidential straw poll?

I have read Jefferson's paper.  We ultimately reached the same conclusion he did that the way to provide more secure balloting using the internet is to require voters to return a signed paper ballot receipt.  The downside to this is that it creates a technical barrier to participation that is probably on par with the most stringent of voter id laws.

Nevertheless, I disagree with this portion of Mr Jefferson's analysis:

"In the ecommerce world problems are reliably detected because of such practices as receipts, double entry bookkeeping, and financial audit records kept by both sides of every major transaction. But in the online election world there are no receipts, no double entry bookkeeping, and no meaningful audit trail information."

At the point a ballot is cast, it is a trivial matter to create a meaningful audit trail that can be retained by "both sides of the transaction".  One such mechanism is to send the voter an email with their vote record which can be reconciled against actual vote.  

Best,

Sal Peralta

________________________________
 From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joehall at gmail.com>
To: Salvador Peralta <oregon.properties at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "mmcdon at gmu.edu" <mmcdon at gmu.edu>; "law-election at department-lists.uci.edu" <law-election at department-lists.uci.edu> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:38 PM
Subject: Re: [EL] Internet Voting in Canada

I *voted* in the Arizona 2000 primary held over the internet (by the
democractic party). ::)

Anyway, I'm not keen to engage on why this kind of thing should be
limited to "only used when necessary" (my view and the view of many
others) as there's not a lot new to be said there. To technical types
and computer security experts, the threats to voting in governmental
elections over the internet are so vastly different than other areas
like e-commerce that it's almost a no-brainer. David Jefferson's full
essay on the subject is worth the short read as it lays out the
incentives and risks of doing anything over the internet that we care
about: http://thevotingnews.com/docs/Jefferson_IV_Revised.pdf

best, Joe (whose new job has very little to do with voting!)

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Salvador Peralta
<oregon.properties at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The Independent Party of Oregon has conducted 2 binding statewide primary
> elections using the internet.
>
> In 2010, the party used a passcode-based system administered by Everyone
> Counts.  In 2012, the party used a "hybrid" system in which ballots were
> distributed to members via the web, but voters were required to return a
> signed receipt along with some form of identification.  Around 2400 voters
> participated in the 2010 election and about 1000 in 2012.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Sal Peralta
>
> ________________________________
> From: Michael McDonald <mmcdon at gmu.edu>
> To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [EL] Internet Voting in Canada
>
> We actually do have internet voting in the U.S. As of this morning, 280
> overseas civilian and military ballots have been returned via e-mail and
> accepted by North Carolina election officials. 6 have been faxed.
>
> ============
> Dr. Michael P. McDonald
> Associate Professor
> George Mason University
> 4400 University Drive - 3F4
> Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
>
> 703-993-4191 (office)
> e-mail:  mmcdon at gmu.edu
> web:    http://elections.gmu.edu
> twitter: @ElectProject
>
> From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of wjk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:15 PM
> To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> Subject: [EL] Internet Voting in Canada Reply to Good ol' Joe
>
>
> Good ol’ Joe can do some incredibly tough name calling over the Internet.
> Wow, dude – you’re a gutsy guy!
>
> Getting back to the election law issues, over 40 cities in Canada have used
> Internet voting (after changing their laws to accommodate it). If good ol’
> Joe’s 'scientifically validated' statement were true, then the entire nation
> of Canada must be smoking something. This would have to include Elections
> Canada, the agency that runs national elections, because, as I show in my
> first article, they want to offer Internet voting for all national
> elections.
>
> Joe’s slightly exaggerated claim is emotion-based rather than factual. He
> appears to be fully caught up in the Moral Panic over the supposed
> insecurity of Internet voting – a Moral Panic that is uniquely American.
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:41:02 -0400
> From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joehall at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [EL] Canada?s National Debate over Internet Voting
> To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> Message-ID:
>     <CACDmtYYHEsuQ5yVjWCB_rWyPSQXF6VHvm3h0Kfdfd-o-YBg7Fg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I don't often feed trolls, but when I do, I prefer them to be William
> Kelleher.
>
> Suffice it to say that every single technical expert you can find will
> advise vociferously against internet voting at this time.
>
> That is all and sorry for unusual snark from me.
>
> best, Joe
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:17 PM, wjk <wjkellpro at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> Canada?s National Debate over Internet Voting: Part Three - The Drum Beat
>> Grows Louder for Internet Voting in Canada
>>
>> http://ivn.us/tomorrows-democracy/2012/09/17/canadas-national-debate-over-internet-voting-part-3/
>> "Big Mo," as campaign directors say, is in favor of Internet voting in
>> Canada. Even Native Canadians are doing it! Check out the first two posts,
>> too!
>>
>> More to come on security issues ?
>>
>> William J. Kelleher, Ph.D.
>> Political Scientist, author, speaker,
>> CEO for The Internet Voting Research and Education Fund
>> a CA Nonprofit Foundation
>> Email: Internetvoting at gmail.com
>> Blog: http://tinyurl.com/IV4All
>> Twitter: wjkno1
>>
>> Author of Internet Voting Now!
>> Kindle edition: http://tinyurl.com/IntV-Now
>> In paper: http://tinyurl.com/IVNow2011
>>
>
>
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