[EL] Internet Voting in Canada

Fri Sep 21 17:30:13 PDT 2012

I've been closely involved with issues of computerization of elections
since 2004, speaking all over the country on this subject and engaging in
dialog with lots of citizens, academics and elections officials.

It is really a small minority of folks active in this area of election law
and practice who believe that internet voting involves acceptable risks.
Personally, I believe that even if it were stipulated hypothetically that a
"perfect" system of encrypted ballots and the like has been or could be
developed, that point would remain forever hotly disputed by equally or
better qualified experts, and in any event the average citizen would be
incapable of forming an independent belief about whether the elections fair
or not based on such a battle of experts.

Teenagers regularly hack the Pentagon and such, so anyone who thinks
internet based elections can occur without mischief borders on public
policy delusion, or perhaps engages in public policy delusion.

What proponents of internet voting do is largely ignore the requirements of
democracy and transparency and instead make their sales pitch based largely
if not totally on values associated with computers like "user friendly"
quick, efficient, and the like.  But as Harry Truman said, if you want
efficiency, you'll get yourself a dictatorship. Fundamental things about
democracy like separation of powers and checks and balances are
specifically designed to be inefficient, unlike a dictatorship....
Shouldn't everyone involved with choosing voting systems use the values of
democracy rather than the values of modern computerization?  It seems they
should, but they are not.

Personally, I'd like to ask proponents of Internet voting to bet their life
that the system would work well.  For if they are not willing to bet their
life on this question, why should they bet our democracy on it?  The
numbers of folks in true support of internet voting are very small, and
this is entirely appropriate for all kinds of reasons, many of which are
linked to in Joseph Lorenzo Hall's comment below.

Paul Lehto, J.D.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 4:38 PM, Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joehall at gmail.com>wrote:

> I *voted* in the Arizona 2000 primary held over the internet (by the
> democractic party). ::)
>
> Anyway, I'm not keen to engage on why this kind of thing should be
> limited to "only used when necessary" (my view and the view of many
> others) as there's not a lot new to be said there. To technical types
> and computer security experts, the threats to voting in governmental
> elections over the internet are so vastly different than other areas
> like e-commerce that it's almost a no-brainer. David Jefferson's full
> essay on the subject is worth the short read as it lays out the
> incentives and risks of doing anything over the internet that we care
> about: http://thevotingnews.com/docs/Jefferson_IV_Revised.pdf
>
> best, Joe (whose new job has very little to do with voting!)
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Salvador Peralta
> <oregon.properties at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The Independent Party of Oregon has conducted 2 binding statewide primary
> > elections using the internet.
> >
> > In 2010, the party used a passcode-based system administered by Everyone
> > Counts.  In 2012, the party used a "hybrid" system in which ballots were
> > distributed to members via the web, but voters were required to return a
> > signed receipt along with some form of identification.  Around 2400
> voters
> > participated in the 2010 election and about 1000 in 2012.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Sal Peralta
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Michael McDonald <mmcdon at gmu.edu>
> > To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [EL] Internet Voting in Canada
> >
> > We actually do have internet voting in the U.S. As of this morning, 280
> > overseas civilian and military ballots have been returned via e-mail and
> > accepted by North Carolina election officials. 6 have been faxed.
> >
> > ============
> > Dr. Michael P. McDonald
> > Associate Professor
> > George Mason University
> > 4400 University Drive - 3F4
> > Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
> >
> > 703-993-4191 (office)
> > e-mail:  mmcdon at gmu.edu
> > web:    http://elections.gmu.edu
> > twitter: @ElectProject
> >
> > From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> > [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of wjk
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:15 PM
> > To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> > Subject: [EL] Internet Voting in Canada Reply to Good ol' Joe
> >
> >
> > Good ol’ Joe can do some incredibly tough name calling over the Internet.
> > Wow, dude – you’re a gutsy guy!
> >
> > Getting back to the election law issues, over 40 cities in Canada have
> used
> > Internet voting (after changing their laws to accommodate it). If good
> ol’
> > Joe’s 'scientifically validated' statement were true, then the entire
> nation
> > of Canada must be smoking something. This would have to include Elections
> > Canada, the agency that runs national elections, because, as I show in my
> > first article, they want to offer Internet voting for all national
> > elections.
> >
> > Joe’s slightly exaggerated claim is emotion-based rather than factual. He
> > appears to be fully caught up in the Moral Panic over the supposed
> > insecurity of Internet voting – a Moral Panic that is uniquely American.
> >
> > Message: 15
> > Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 14:41:02 -0400
> > From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall <joehall at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [EL] Canada?s National Debate over Internet Voting
> > To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> > Message-ID:
> >     <CACDmtYYHEsuQ5yVjWCB_rWyPSQXF6VHvm3h0Kfdfd-o-YBg7Fg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> >
> > I don't often feed trolls, but when I do, I prefer them to be William
> > Kelleher.
> >
> > Suffice it to say that every single technical expert you can find will
> > advise vociferously against internet voting at this time.
> >
> > That is all and sorry for unusual snark from me.
> >
> > best, Joe
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:17 PM, wjk <wjkellpro at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Canada?s National Debate over Internet Voting: Part Three - The Drum
> Beat
> >> Grows Louder for Internet Voting in Canada
> >>
> >>
> http://ivn.us/tomorrows-democracy/2012/09/17/canadas-national-debate-over-internet-voting-part-3/
> >> "Big Mo," as campaign directors say, is in favor of Internet voting in
> >> Canada. Even Native Canadians are doing it! Check out the first two
> posts,
> >> too!
> >>
> >> More to come on security issues ?
> >>
> >> William J. Kelleher, Ph.D.
> >> Political Scientist, author, speaker,
> >> CEO for The Internet Voting Research and Education Fund
> >> a CA Nonprofit Foundation
> >> Email: Internetvoting at gmail.com
> >> Blog: http://tinyurl.com/IV4All
> >> Twitter: wjkno1
> >>
> >> Author of Internet Voting Now!
> >> Kindle edition: http://tinyurl.com/IntV-Now
> >> In paper: http://tinyurl.com/IVNow2011
> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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-- 
Paul R Lehto, J.D.
P.O. Box 1
Ishpeming, MI  49849
lehto.paul at gmail.com
906-204-4965 (cell)
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