[EL] listserv decorum
Rick Hasen
rhasen at law.uci.edu
Fri Aug 30 07:29:43 PDT 2013
Kevin and others,
Regardless of one's views on the merits of the disclosure question, I do
not want people to use this listserv, has you have below, to disclose
personal information about listserv members or others. Please refrain
from using the listserv for this purpose.
Rick
On 8/29/13 2:25 PM, Greenberg, Kevin wrote:
>
> For whatever it's worth, I found her home address in Maryland, her
> address of birth, and at least two other addresses in less than two
> minutes using free, online search tools. Not even talking about the
> commercially available databases.
>
> And I did NOT use any campaign finance database.
>
> Whether or not to disclose addresses on campaign finance databases may
> be an interesting debate. But no one needs a campaign finance
> database to identify anyone's home address.
>
> Bill, your name is a little more common, so in two minutes I can't
> tell if you live on ...K. Odds are its one of those. I can share the
> various spouses and prior addresses as well if you wish.
>
> Kevin Greenberg
> (215) 279-9912
>
> *From:*law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill Maurer
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2013 3:16 PM
> *To:* Michael P McDonald; law-election at UCI.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
>
> Unfortunately, Professor, your view does not prevail among many
> legislators and administrative agency officials, many of whom have the
> view of "disclose everything, though the heavens may fall," and who
> consistently ignore or minimize the serious consequences that result
> from this position. Rather than start from where we think the line
> might be drawn, the starting point, I think, should be a recognition
> from the regulatory policymakers that not every single transaction
> must be disclosed and that disclosure, in and of itself, imposes
> serious burdens while oftentimes providing little benefit to the
> public. That has not been done, so far as I can tell. While
> reasonable people could, perhaps, come to a compromise that could
> satisfy constitutional scrutiny and provide some public information,
> that has not been the approach of those who craft these laws, who
> continue to require ridiculous, oppressive requirements, like
> reporting the name, address, occupation and employer for someone who
> buys a box of doughnuts for a political meeting.
>
> *From:*law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Michael P McDonald
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:53 AM
> *To:* law-election at UCI.edu <mailto:law-election at UCI.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
>
> I'll cut to the chase and start this debate where we last left it off.
> The current federal disclosure law is an aggregate of $200/candidate
> per election. As I said then, a disclosure threshold is reasonable.
> Many conservatives on the list also expressed agreement that
> disclosure thresholds are reasonable. I'm willing to entertain a
> higher number, but when I pressed on what threshold might be agreeable
> to conservatives, no one was willing to give a number. Is it $1,000,
> $1 billion, or what? What contribution level qualifies as one as a
> small donor? We can't have a reasonable discussion about changing
> policy without that information.
>
> ============
> Dr. Michael P. McDonald
> Associate Professor
> George Mason University
> 4400 University Drive - 3F4
> Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
>
> phone: 703-993-4191 (office)
> e-mail: mmcdon at gmu.edu <mailto:mmcdon at gmu.edu>
> web: http://elections.gmu.edu
> twitter: @ElectProject
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Smith, Brad [BSmith at law.capital.edu]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:41 PM
> *To:* Michael P McDonald; law-election at UCI.edu
> <mailto:law-election at UCI.edu>
> *Subject:* RE: [EL] Paz Harassment
>
> It is an important "democratic value" that the names and addresses of
> smalltime donors such as Holly Paz be made public.
>
> Serious argument, or "straw man"?
>
> I'm going with "straw man," but there may be people who take that
> argument seriously.
>
> /Bradley A. Smith/
>
> /Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault/
>
> / Professor of Law/
>
> /Capital University Law School/
>
> /303 E. Broad St./
>
> /Columbus, OH 43215/
>
> /614.236.6317/
>
> /http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>
> [law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] on behalf of Michael P
> McDonald [mmcdon at gmu.edu]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:24 PM
> *To:* law-election at UCI.edu <mailto:law-election at UCI.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
>
> Do you guys ever get tired of punching straw men? No one ever said
> there was no political harassment and several people gave examples of
> it, myself included. The claim was the harassment *for a campaign
> donation* was a rare thing, is terrible, but when weighed against
> other democratic values should be properly handled through law
> enforcement. I don't think Ms. Paz is being harassed for a campaign
> donation.
>
> ============
>
> Dr. Michael P. McDonald
> Associate Professor
> George Mason University
> 4400 University Drive - 3F4
> Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
>
> phone: 703-993-4191 (office)
> e-mail: mmcdon at gmu.edu <mailto:mmcdon at gmu.edu>
> web: http://elections.gmu.edu
> twitter: @ElectProject
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>
> [law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] on behalf of Smith,
> Brad [BSmith at law.capital.edu]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:03 PM
> *To:* Bill Maurer; law-election at UCI.edu <mailto:law-election at UCI.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
>
> Ah, so that explains why the President has urged higher taxes on the
> wealthy - he's a captive of his donor base of IRS agents! Thank
> goodness now we know. Had I know this 10 months ago, it would
> certainly have influenced my vote, and helped me make sense of the
> campaign.
>
> By the way, Bill - you're not much good at using the databases - I got
> to her street address in 25 seconds from the time I started looking,
> and it took me that long because I kept hitting the "caps lock" key
> when I meant to hit the "tab" key. I'm tempted to publish it here,
> because, like you say, it's probably not worth worrying about, and
> it's important for people to know. Otherwise, we couldn't be sure it
> was the right Holly Paz. Besides, most people making death threats
> probably don't *really* plan to kill her, they just want to harass her
> a bit, and a little harassment for someone is, well, like Justice
> Scalia and a few others I could name always say, it's a small price to
> pay when the alternative is not knowing which politicians are beholden
> to Holly Paz.
>
> /Bradley A. Smith/
>
> /Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault/
>
> / Professor of Law/
>
> /Capital University Law School/
>
> /303 E. Broad St./
>
> /Columbus, OH 43215/
>
> /614.236.6317/
>
> /http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>
> [law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] on behalf of Bill
> Maurer [wmaurer at ij.org]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:32 PM
> *To:* Rick Hasen; law-election at UCI.edu <mailto:law-election at UCI.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
>
> I was wondering how people got Ms. Paz's private information so they
> could engage in the harassment discussed in story, given that I
> imagine that most IRS officials are not all that forthcoming about
> where they live. Then I did a search for her political donations
> and---Shazam!---there it was, at least what state and city she lives
> in (had she given money in Washington state, her street address would
> have been listed too).
>
> However, I've been told repeatedly that using this information to
> harass people (i) doesn't happen, (ii) isn't that bad anyway, and
> (iii) it's the price of political courage, so I guess it's all okay.
> Maybe she'll be able to get an exemption from reporting now that
> people have actually threatened to kill her, but that will depend on
> whether a judge decides her fear is "reasonable" in light of the need
> to "follow the money" right up to where the yellow police tape starts.
>
> Bill
>
> *From:*law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of
> *Rick Hasen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:42 PM
> *To:* law-election at UCI.edu <mailto:law-election at UCI.edu>
> *Subject:* [EL] ELB News and Commentary 8/29/13
>
>
> "IRS official who scrutinized conservative groups facing
> harassment, attorney says" <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54904>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:38 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54904>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> WaPo:
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/irs-official-who-scrutinized-conservative-groups-facing-harassment-attorney-says/2013/08/28/50577962-0ff6-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html>
>
> A top Internal Revenue Service official has faced harassment,
> including threatening telephone calls and visits to her home,
> after being singled out for criticism by Republicans, her lawyer
> alleges in a letter to lawmakers.
>
> The official, Holly Paz
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/17/what-did-top-irs-official-holly-paz-tell-congressional-investigators-here-are-the-highlights/>,
> has been on administrative leave since June in connection with the
> controversy
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-denounces-reported-irs-targeting-of-conservative-groups/2013/05/13/a0185644-bbdf-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html>
> over how the IRS scrutinized conservative groups applying for
> tax-exempt status. Paz was involved in subjecting some tea party
> groups to scrutiny and helped conduct an internal review of the
> program, but has not been formally accused of wrongdoing.
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54904&title=%E2%80%9CIRS%20official%20who%20scrutinized%20conservative%20groups%20facing%20harassment%2C%20attorney%20says%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted incampaign finance <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=10>, tax
> law and election law <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=22>
>
>
> Tom Edsall Gets Major Republican Strategists, Top U.S. Political
> Scientists to Weigh in On Chances for Republicans to Capture
> Presidency in 2016 <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54902>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:34 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54902>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Important perspectives
> <http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/28/can-republicans-paint-the-white-house-red/?hp&_r=0>.
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54902&title=Tom%20Edsall%20Gets%20Major%20Republican%20Strategists%2C%20Top%20U.S.%20Political%20Scientists%20to%20Weigh%20in%20On%20Chances%20for%20Republicans%20to%20Capture%20Presidency%20in%202016&descript>
>
> Posted incampaigns <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=59>
>
>
> "Obama: 'We're Not Going To Wait For Congress' To Act On Voting
> Rights Act" <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54900>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:28 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54900>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Video
> <http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/08/28/obama_were_not_going_to_wait_for_congress_to_act_on_voting_rights_act.html>
> from PBS News Hour interview.
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54900&title=%E2%80%9CObama%3A%20%E2%80%98We%E2%80%99re%20Not%20Going%20To%20Wait%20For%20Congress%E2%80%99%20To%20Act%20On%20Voting%20Rights%20Act%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted inDepartment of Justice <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=26>,
> The Voting Wars <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60>, Voting Rights
> Act <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15>
>
>
> "N.C. Lawmakers Meet Raucous Crowd at Charlotte Forum"
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54898>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:26 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54898>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> The backlash begins.
> <http://electionlawblog.org/N.C.%20lawmakers%20meet%20raucous%20crowd%20at%20Charlotte%20forum%20%20Read%20more%20here:%20http:/www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/08/28/4271194/nc-lawmakers-meet-raucous-crowd.html#storylink=cpy>
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54898&title=%E2%80%9CN.C.%20Lawmakers%20Meet%20Raucous%20Crowd%20at%20Charlotte%20Forum%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted inThe Voting Wars <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60>
>
>
> "The True Cost of Free Voter I.D. in Texas"
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54896>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:17 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54896>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> This interesting item
> <http://texaselectionlaw.wordpress.com/2013/07/25/the-true-cost-of-free-voter-i-d-in-texas/>
> (and many other interesting items) appear at the new "Texas Election
> Law Blog." The blog is written by
> <http://texaselectionlaw.wordpress.com/about/> "Joseph Kulhavy -- I am
> a licensed attorney in the State of Texas, and from October 6, 2004
> until July 2, 2013, I was a staff attorney with the Elections
> Division, Texas Secretary of State."
>
> Keep an eye here.
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54896&title=%E2%80%9CThe%20True%20Cost%20of%20Free%20Voter%20I.D.%20in%20Texas%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted inThe Voting Wars <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60>, voter
> id <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=9>, Voting Rights Act
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15>
>
>
> Other Goings-On in Texas Since The Supreme Court Killed Voting
> Rights Act Section 5 Preclearance
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54892>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:11 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54892>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> In Pasadena, TX:
> <http://txredistricting.org/post/58935159956/pasadena-redistricting-moves-draw-questions>
> "the City of Pasadena in southeast Harris County voted 5-4 to place a
> proposition on the November 2013 ballot that, if approved by voters,
> would change the city's current 8 single member district system of
> electing members of the city council to a 6-2 system featuring two at
> large members.
> <http://txredistricting.org/post/58935159956/pasadena-redistricting-moves-draw-questions>
> State Sen. Sylvia Garcia, MALDEF, and the /Houston Chronicle/ have all
> expressed concerns that the move would dilute the voting strength of
> the city's rapidly growing Hispanic population."
>
> In Galveston, TX:
> <http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Galveston-County-may-run-afoul-of-Voting-Rights-4747681.php>"Galveston
> County commissioners have slashed the number of justice of the peace
> and constable districts a year after the U.S. Justice Department
> blocked a similar plan as discriminatory."
>
> Yeah, the end of preclearance matters
> <http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/08/north_carolina_s_speedy_vote_suppression_tactics_show_exactly_why_the_voting.html>.
> And for those like James Taranto
> <http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324108204579024942693167698.html>who
> say the Court didn't really kill Section 5, only the preclearance
> provision of section 4, I debunk that claim in my APSA paper (which
> I'm presenting tomorrow), /Shelby County and the Illusion of
> Minimalism./ <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2291612>
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54892&title=Other%20Goings-On%20in%20Texas%20Since%20The%20Supreme%20Court%20Killed%20Voting%20Rights%20Act%20Section%205%20Preclearance&description=>
>
> Posted inSupreme Court <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=29>, Voting
> Rights Act <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15>
>
>
> Eric Wang on McCutcheon <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54890>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:00 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54890>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Here
> <http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/28/wang-cutting-the-price-tag-off-free-speech/>,
> in the /Washington Times./
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54890&title=Eric%20Wang%20on%20McCutcheon&description=>
>
> Posted incampaign finance <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=10>
>
>
> "Black Republicans try to appropriate Martin Luther King"
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54888>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 8:56 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54888>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> And apparently they don't suppor
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-black-republicans-try-to-appropriate-martin-luther-king/2013/08/26/2eb47d18-0e99-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html>t
> fixing the Voting Rights Act:
>
> A similar response greeted Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), who
> criticized the Supreme Court decision
> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-stops-use-of-key-part-of-voting-rights-act/2013/06/25/26888528-dda5-11e2-b197-f248b21f94c4_story.html>
> that invalidated part of the Voting Rights Act and vowed to repair
> the law so that it is "impervious to another challenge that will
> be filed by the usual suspects. I'm with you on that." The light
> applause suggested that most of those in attendance were not with him.
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54888&title=%E2%80%9CBlack%20Republicans%20try%20to%20appropriate%20Martin%20Luther%20King%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted inVoting Rights Act <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15>
>
>
> "Sorority offered free drinks to members to vote in Tuscaloosa
> City Board of Education race" <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54886>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 8:54 pm
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54886>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> The /Birmingham News/ reports. (h/t Political Wire)
> <http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/08/28/sorority_girls_offered_free_drinks_to_vote.html#.Uh6PQVbh_mE.twitter>
>
> Offering payments or incentives for voting is illegal in federal
> elections. It is also illegal in some states. (It is illegal in all
> states to pay someone to vote /for or against/ a candidate or ballot
> measure.)
>
> More on this in my article, Vote Buying.
> <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=257564>
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54886&title=%E2%80%9CSorority%20offered%20free%20drinks%20to%20members%20to%20vote%20in%20Tuscaloosa%20City%20Board%20of%20Education%20race%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted invote buying <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=43>
>
>
> "Colorado: Campaign Finance complaint filed against Morse opponent
> points to the hybrid nature of recalls"
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54884>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 10:13 am
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54884>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> This item
> <http://recallelections.blogspot.com/2013/08/colorado-campaign-finance-complaint.html>
> appears at the Recall Elections Blog.
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54884&title=%E2%80%9CColorado%3A%20Campaign%20Finance%20complaint%20filed%20against%20Morse%20opponent%20points%20to%20the%20hybrid%20nature%20of%20recalls%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted incampaign finance <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=10>, recall
> elections <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=11>
>
>
> "What Today's Journalists Can Learn From MLK Coverage; In 1963,
> newspapers tried to present 'both sides' of the civil rights
> struggle. Modern reporters should know better --- but when it
> comes to voting rights, they often make the same mistake."
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54882>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 10:11 am
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54882>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Andrew Cohen writes
> <http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/08/what-todays-journalists-can-learn-from-mlk-coverage/278095/>
> for /The Atlantic./
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54882&title=%E2%80%9CWhat%20Today%E2%80%99s%20Journalists%20Can%20Learn%20From%20MLK%20Coverage%3B%20In%201963%2C%20newspapers%20tried%20to%20present%20%E2%80%98both%20sides%E2%80%99%20of%20the%20civil%20right>
>
> Posted inThe Voting Wars <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60>
>
>
> "Republicans Admit Voter ID Laws Are Aimed at Democratic Voters"
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54880>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 9:17 am
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54880>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Jamelle Bouie writes
> <http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/28/republicans-admit-voter-id-laws-are-aimed-at-democratic-voters.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+thedailybeast%2Fpolitics+%28The+Daily+Beast+-+Politics%29>
> for /The Daily Beast./
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54880&title=%E2%80%9CRepublicans%20Admit%20Voter%20ID%20Laws%20Are%20Aimed%20at%20Democratic%20Voters%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted inThe Voting Wars <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60>
>
>
> "King's Deferred 'Dream' of Democracy"
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54878>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 8:56 am
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54878>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Janai Nelson writes
> <http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/27/kings-deferred-dream-of-democracy/>
> for Reuters Opinion.
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54878&title=%E2%80%9CKing%E2%80%99s%20Deferred%20%E2%80%98Dream%E2%80%99%20of%20Democracy%E2%80%9D&description=>
>
> Posted inVoting Rights Act <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15>
>
>
> An Open Letter to Jonathan Tobin on Voter Fraud Allegations
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54875>
>
> Posted on August 28, 2013 8:32 am
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54875>by Rick Hasen
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Mr Tobin,
>
> Is it possible for you to stop the bait and switch
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=48568>? No one I know who has studied
> this issue says there's no voter fraud (hence, the misleading title of
> your piece: Are You Sure There's No Voter Fraud
> <http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/08/27/are-you-sure-theres-no-voter-fraud-voter-id-detroi/>?).
> It happens, especially with absentee ballots.
>
> Instead, the claim is that there's almost no voter impersonation
> fraud---the main type of fraud a voter id law would be designed to
> prevent. For my book /The Voting Wars /I tried to find a single
> instance where an election was thrown into question since 1980
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=42150> by such fraud. I could not find
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=19560> a single example. I found lots
> of examples of absentee ballot fraud, and election officials
> committing fraud. But because impersonation fraud is such a dumb and
> inefficient way to steal an election, it is unsurprising that it
> doesn't happen. You offer no such examples in your writing; just
> innuendo.
>
> And please don't tell me that this fraud is both widespread and
> impossible to detect (to paraphrase Colin Powell's recent remarks).
> There's not a single credible academic
> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=42251> who would agree. We have some
> comparative numbers from News21 <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=48568>
> on prosecutions for these kinds of crimes. Absentee ballot fraud is a
> real problem. Impersonation fraud is negligible. There's no reason to
> believe that impersonation fraud would be harder to catch. In fact,
> because it would involve a lot of people going to polling places
> claiming to be someone else, it would be easier to catch.
>
> So spare me the unsubstantiated allegations. And if you are really
> serious that voter fraud is a major problem, let's see you get behind
> and advocate for the elimination of no excuse absentee balloting
> before you attack phantom targets.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rick Hasen
>
> Share
> <http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D54875&title=An%20Open%20Letter%20to%20Jonathan%20Tobin%20on%20Voter%20Fraud%20Allegations&description=>
>
> Posted infraudulent fraud squad <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=8>,
> The Voting Wars <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60>
>
> --
> Rick Hasen
> Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
> UC Irvine School of Law
> 401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
> Irvine, CA 92697-8000
> 949.824.3072 - office
> 949.824.0495 - fax
> rhasen at law.uci.edu <mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>
> http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/
> http://electionlawblog.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Rick Hasen
Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
UC Irvine School of Law
401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
Irvine, CA 92697-8000
949.824.3072 - office
949.824.0495 - fax
rhasen at law.uci.edu
http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/
http://electionlawblog.org
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