[EL] If it were a World Cup of Democracy....

JBoppjr at aol.com JBoppjr at aol.com
Thu Jul 10 07:01:24 PDT 2014


Regarding this:
 
Many just don't see elections as worth the time
 
This does seem to be a rational decision for several reasons. One reason is 
 the growth in power of the federal government and the fact that one vote 
has no  chance to effect who is elected President or controls Congress. The 
Framers  concept was as much power as possible at the lowest level.
 
So I wonder if there are any statistics on historic voting rates in local  
communities and/or for state elections when relatively they had more power?  
Logically, people should think they have more influence on local elections 
in  most communities and, if local governments have real power, it is worth 
one's  time voting in the election.
 
But I doubt we can figure this out, since one cannot do a truly scientific  
study since one cannot control all the other variables.  Over time lots of  
the factors that can influence voting rates change and many vary  from 
election to election - some increasing turnout and some  decreasing it.  It is 
just speculation on which factor was most important  -- if any one was -- 
over time or in any particular election and it cannot be  scientifically 
determined.
 
Jim Bopp
 
 
In a message dated 7/9/2014 4:56:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
rr at fairvote.org writes:

In answer to Larry, Australia made it to the final in our World  Cup. Not 
only does it have high turnout, largely due to compulsory voting ,but  it 
rates well on other measures.   


We updated the piece. It turns out the version I linked to on Thursday  had 
accurate data in the spreadsheet and write-up, but an error in the graphic  
that was based on changes to the indices being incompletely updated. Ilya 
will  be happy to know that Russia indeed rated poorly, well behind the US. 
See the  corrected version here, with some additional text that tries to 
anticipate the  kinds of concerns raised on this list:
http://www.fairvote.org/research-and-analysis/blog/world-cup-of-democracy-go
es-to-the-netherlands/



The final four nations are all ones that are well-respected nations and  
strong democracies -- Germany, Australia, Belgium and the Netherlands.  
Interestingly, three of these nations made the final eight in the real World  Cup.


The US still legs, however. Its low turnout might not bother Brad, but it  
does raise questions about  the health of our electoral democracy in our  
eyes -- especially when those not showing up to vote do not correlate with  
people who are necessarily content. Many just don't see elections as worth the 
 time, which I don't see it is as good in the long-term.


Rob



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Richie
Executive  Director, FairVote   
6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite  610
Takoma Park, MD 20912
_rr at fairvote.org_ (mailto:rr at fairvote.org)   (301) 270-4616  
_http://www.fairvote.org_ (http://www.fairvote.org/)   
Social Media: _FairVote  Facebook_ 
(https://www.facebook.com/FairVoteReform)    _FairVote  Twitter_ (https://twitter.com/fairvote)   _My Twitter_ 
(https://twitter.com/rob_richie) 

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On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM, Larry Levine <_larrylevine at earthlink.net_ 
(mailto:larrylevine at earthlink.net) > wrote:


 
I recently served as a  member of the City of Los Angeles Election Reform 
Commission. Our charge was  to explore ways to increase turnout in municipal 
elections. The factors of  disproportionately low turnout in 
under-represented communities was part of  our work. You can see the official commission 
report at the link below. It  recommends moving elections to November of the 
even numbered years to  coincide with Presidential and gubernatorial 
elections. There also is a  minority report in which I was involved. It argues that 
the date of the  election is the least impactful factor in determining 
turnout and that voter  interest in the issues and the candidates is far more 
important. In my oral  argument against the official report I said: you could 
put the repeal of  Proposition 13 (property tax reform) on the ballot on 
Christmas Day and get  a big turnout, but you could put a lackluster 
gubernatorial Primary Election  on the ballot June 3 and get a 20% turnout. I think the 
chart of turnout in  Los Angeles Mayoral elections over the last 44 years 
is worth a look. It is  in the main body of the commission’s report. 
http://electionscommission.lacity.org/html/documents.html 
Larry 
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_ 
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)  
[mailto:_law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_ (mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu) ] On  
Behalf Of Zachary Roth
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 9:16  AM
To: Smith, Brad 
 

Cc: Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] If it  were a World Cup of Democracy....

 
 
 
 
Thanks for these responses. It seems like these arguments  don't have much 
to do with how this actually plays out. In reality, low  turnout usually 
means a turnout that skews white, upper-income, and  well-educated (at least in 
federal elections, but I think also in others).  So when people worry about 
low turnout, that's sort of a shorthand for  worrying about an electorate 
that doesn't accurately represent the  voting-age population, leading to a 
government that doesn't pay attention to  the interests of marginalized 
groups. 
 

 
Maybe that's not something people here see as anything to  be concerned 
about (would love to hear that argument, too). But it seems  worth being clear 
on what I think most people mean when they worry about low  turnout. 
 

 



 
 
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Smith, Brad <_BSmith at law.capital.edu_ 
(mailto:BSmith at law.capital.edu) > wrote: 
 
 
I  think, Sal, you should try to answer this question yourself. I mean this 
 seriously: think, why would a person suggest that the fact that a near  
majority of voters can sometimes elect a usually narrow majority of the  
legislature is a strength, or at least not a weakness.   
 

 
Consider  things such whether there are any merits to federalism; to 
representation  based on geographic districts with winner take all; or to having 
districts  drawn with purpose rather than randomly, for starters. Then 
compare a system  that yields such results not to an idealized version of 
competing systems,  but to their actual reality. 
 

 
Then  consider again the merits of a system that ranks Argentina and Russia 
ahead  of the United States as a democracy, and consider what flaws there 
might be  in that model.
 
 
 
 
Bradley  A. Smith 
Josiah  H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault 
Professor of Law 
Capital  University Law School 
303  E. Broad St. 
Columbus,  OH 43215 
_614.236.6317_ (tel:614.236.6317)  
http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx


 
  
____________________________________
 
 
From: Salvador Peralta  [_oregon.properties at yahoo.com_ 
(mailto:oregon.properties at yahoo.com) ]
Sent: Thursday,  July 03, 2014 8:01 PM
To: Smith, Brad; Rob Richie
Cc:  Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] If it were a World Cup of  Democracy....
 
 
The  ability to manipulate districts to enable a minority of voters to win 
a  majority of seats in our legislature is a strength of our electoral  
system?

How so? 
 

 
 
 
  
____________________________________
 
From: "Smith, Brad"  <_BSmith at law.capital.edu_ 
(mailto:BSmith at law.capital.edu) >
To: Rob Richie <_rr at fairvote.org_ (mailto:rr at fairvote.org) > 
Cc: Election Law <_Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu_ 
(mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu) > 
Sent:  Thursday, July 3, 2014 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [EL] If it were a  World Cup of Democracy....
 
 
 
 
 
 
What's  interesting is that there are very strong arguments that all of 
these things  represent the strength of American democracy and our electoral 
system. The  absurdity of a ranking putting Argentina and Russia ahead of the 
US may be  evidence that the raters do not understand what their data  means.

Bradley Smith  
 
Sent from my  iPhone

 

 
 

On Jul 3,  2014, at 6:59 PM, "Rob Richie" <_rr at fairvote.org_ 
(mailto:rr at fairvote.org) >  wrote:

 
 
Not to bore  the list, but just briefly, the FairVote crew used four 
different  measures. One is based on the Economist's "Democracy Index", which  
measures overall democratic health -- court system, press, etc. The US  does 
pretty well there, ranking 7th among the nations, with countries like  Algeria 
and Russia far behind. So good for us there, even if we're a good  bit 
behind countries like Australia, Netherlands, and Switzerland.   
 

 
But they did  want to make this more heavily focused on elections. And 
there, Americans  do have to face up to a few facts like:
 

 
- Voter  turnout in the US is exceptionally low in internal  norms
 

 
-  Representation of women in Congress is very low, which we see as a 
window  into other limitations in how well we represent the  electorate.
 

 
- Congress can  have an approval rating around 10%, yet more than 98% of 
House incumbents  almost certainly be returned to office this November - 
returning us to the  four elections from 1998 to 2004 where each year more than 
98% of House  incumbents won even in years like 2002 when more than half of 
states  switched parties in gubernatorial elections. (Note that FairVote will 
be  able to call winners for November 2016 in close to 90% of races just 
two  days after this November's election using a methodology that is quite  
likely to be 100% accurate.)
 

 
- Republicans  won 54% of seats in 2012 with 48% of votes, and likely would 
not lose  control of the House this year without dropping below 45% of 
votes (and  this can happen to the GOP in some states, like in NJ, where its 
assembly  candidates won only 40% of seats with 50% of votes in 2013). So we 
don't  do seats-to-votes very well for the major parties, and of course not 
all  for emerging parties seeking to hold the major parties  accountable.
 

 
On some of  these electoral measures, generally less democratic nations 
like Russia  and Argentina do a lot better than us. And we think that matters, 
even if  we recognize the Economist measure as critically  important.
 

 
Onward,
 
Rob
 


 


 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob  Richie
Executive Director, FairVote   
6930 Carroll  Avenue, Suite 610
Takoma Park, MD 20912
_rr at fairvote.org_ (mailto:rr at fairvote.org)   _(301) 270-4616_ 
(tel:(301)%20270-4616)   _http://www.fairvote.org_ (http://www.fairvote.org/)   
 
Social  Media: _FairVote  Facebook_ 
(https://www.facebook.com/FairVoteReform)    _FairVote  Twitter_ (https://twitter.com/fairvote)   _My  Twitter_ 
(https://twitter.com/rob_richie) 
 
First Million  Campaign  Thank  you for considering a_ tax-deductible 
donation_ 
(http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2495/t/10346/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page_KEY=5643)  to support  FairVote's _Reform2020.com_ 
(http://reform2020.com/)  vision. (Combined Federal Campaign  number is 10132.) 


 
On Thu, Jul 3,  2014 at 6:25 PM, Ilya Shapiro <_IShapiro at cato.org_ 
(mailto:IShapiro at cato.org) >  wrote: 
 
 
 
Um,  Russia is tied with the US and Argentina is way ahead. Time to go back 
to  the drawing board on that ridiculous measurement.
 

 
 
Ilya  Shapiro
 
Senior  Fellow in Constitutional Studies,
 
Editor-in-Chief  of the Cato Supreme Court Review
 
Cato  Institute
 
1000  Massachusetts Ave. NW
 
Washington,  DC  20001
 
tel.  _(202) 218-4600_ (http://urlblockederror.aspx/) 
 
cel.  _(202) 577-1134_ (http://urlblockederror.aspx/) 
 
fax.  _(202) 842-3490_ (http://urlblockederror.aspx/) 
 
_ishapiro at cato.org_ (mailto:ishapiro at cato.org) 
 
Bio/clips:  http://www.cato.org/people/shapiro.html
 
Twitter:  _www.twitter.com/ishapiro_ (http://www.twitter.com/ishapiro) 
 
SSRN:  http://ssrn.com/author=1382023
 

 
Cato  Supreme Court Review:   http://www.cato.org/supreme-court-review
 

 
Register  for our 2014 Constitution Day Conference - Supreme Court  
Review/Preview:  http://www.cato.org/events/13th-annual-constitution-day
 

 
Watch  me defend the right to keep and bear arms on the Colbert Report:  
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/340923/july-08-2010/auto
matics-for-the-people---ilya-shapiro---jackie-hilly
 


 
  
____________________________________
 
 
From:  _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_ 
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)  
[mailto:_law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_ (mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu) ] On  
Behalf Of Rob Richie
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2014 6:20  PM
To: Election Law
Subject: [EL] If it were a World  Cup of Democracy....

 
 
 

 
 
 
Some soccer fans at FairVote are also fans of  representative democracy. 
Even as they get ready for the quarterfinals  this weekend, they decided to 
compare nations according to measures of  their level of electoral democracy.

 
 


 
 
Spoiler alert: the US wouldn't even have advanced to  the round of 16 based 
on this measure.

 
 


 
 
Happy July 4th - -a good time to mull over how well  we're measuring the 
"consent of the governed."

 
 


 
 
-  Rob Richie

 
 

##############

 
 


 
 
http://www.fairvote.org/research-and-analysis/blog/world-cup-of-democracy-go
es-to-the-netherlands/

 
 


 
 


 
World Cup  of Democracy Goes to the Netherlands

by _Anthony  Ramicone_ 
(http://www.fairvote.org/list/author/Anthony_Ramicone) , _Nicholas  Golden_ 
(http://www.fairvote.org/list/author/Nicholas_Golden) , _Bogdan  Popescu_ (http://www.fairvote.org/list/author/Bogdan_Popescu)  
// Published July 3, 2014 
 
 

 
The  FIFA World Cup is underway in Brazil. And while that tournament will  
eventually crown the best national soccer team in the world, we wondered  
what it would look like if it was crowning the best democracy in the  world. 
With that in mind, we decided to put together an index that  compares 
democracies across countries and then apply it to this year’s  World Cup field.
 
In  the end, the Netherlands came out on top, defeating Australia in a 
fairly  lopsided final. You can see how the whole tournament played out in the  
graphic above. As to the United States, it didn’t even escape its “group  
of death” in our Democracy World Cup and ranks 17th among the 32 nations  
overall.
 
But  what does it mean to have the world’s best democracy (or at least the 
best  out of World Cup entrants)? Here is what went into our  calculation:
 
1)  Turnout
 
If  a lot of people don’t bother to vote, your democracy is probably not  
healthy. Political participation is at the root of representative  democracy, 
and voting is perhaps the most basic form of participation. Our  turnout 
metric is an average of the turnout of the last two nationwide  elections as a 
percentage of the voting age population, _as  reported by IDEA_ 
(http://www.idea.int/vt/index.cfm) . 
 
2)  Fair Representation of Political Views
 
How  likely is it that your vote will elect someone? Do political parties  
receive a share of the power equal to their share of support? These  
questions are at the heart of measuring fair representation, or  “proportionality” 
in political science terms. If, for example, one third  of the voters 
support a particular political party, they should not be  excluded from the 
system. To measure this, we use the _Gallagher  Index_ 
(http://www.tcd.ie/Political_Science/staff/michael_gallagher/ElSystems/Docts/ElectionIndices.pdf) , 
which calculates the overall difference between how  many votes that different 
parties get and how many seats they receive in a  country.
 
3)  Women’s Representation

 
Is  your democracy inclusive of underrepresented groups? While an ideal  
calculation of this would include racial, ethnic, and religious measures,  
what constitutes a minority is so varied across countries that it is too  
difficult to encapsulate in a single metric. Instead, the percentage of  women in 
government serves as a good barometer for understanding how well  a 
democracy represents those who are traditionally excluded. In  particular, _drawing 
 on the Inter-Parliamentary  Union_ (http://www.ipu.org/wmn-e/classif.htm) 
, we use the  percentage of women in the lower house of the legislature, 
since almost  every lower house is directly elected.
 
4)  Legitimacy
 
Is  your democracy a sham? It doesn’t matter how inclusive your legislative 
 chamber is or how many people show up to vote if your elections are  
rigged. We use the Economist Intelligence Unit’s Democracy Index, which  measures 
the robustness of democracies, as a multiplier in our  calculation. This 
ensures that superficial democracies, which look good on  the surface, or not 
rewarded.
 

 
You  can find all of our _sortable  data and calculations here_ 
(http://www.fairvote.org/assets/World-Cup-Democracy.xlsx)  which allow you to see  
which nations are best in each category. We hope that this serves as a  
foundation for building an index that serves to compare democracies around  the 
world, not only measuring how free or fair they are but also how  successful 
they are at representing the people they serve.
 
Some  might be surprised to see that the United States did not make it past 
the  group stage. Not even Tim Howard could save the US from its weak 
turnout  and poor representation of women in Congress. You can read more about  
FairVote’s proposed reforms that would _enhance  women’s representation_ 
(http://www.representation2020.com/)  , _increase  voter turnout_ 
(http://www.promoteourvote.com/)  and _improve  fair representation_ 
(http://www.fairvoting.us/) .
 
Stay  tuned for our next edition of _Dubious  Democracy_ 
(http://www.fairvote.org/assets/Uploads/DubiousDemocracy2010.pdf) , where we have rated states 
in congressional  elections. Historically we have done a relative index, 
but the method  presented here is a step towards an absolute measure that will 
allow for  more meaningful comparisons.


 
 


 
 


 
 


 



 
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob  Richie
Executive Director, FairVote   
6930 Carroll  Avenue, Suite 610
Takoma Park, MD 20912
_rr at fairvote.org_ (mailto:rr at fairvote.org)   _(301) 270-4616_ 
(http://urlblockederror.aspx/)   _http://www.fairvote.org_ (http://www.fairvote.org/) 
 
 
Social Media: _FairVote  Facebook_ 
(https://www.facebook.com/FairVoteReform)    _FairVote  Twitter_ (https://twitter.com/fairvote)   _My  Twitter_ 
(https://twitter.com/rob_richie) 

 
 
First Million Campaign  Thank  you for considering a_ tax-deductible 
donation_ 
(http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/2495/t/10346/shop/custom.jsp?donate_page_KEY=5643)  to support  FairVote's _Reform2020.com_ 
(http://reform2020.com/)  vision. (Combined Federal Campaign  number is  10132.) 














 
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