[EL] Postage Question
David A. Holtzman
David at HoltzmanLaw.com
Tue Nov 1 16:47:12 PDT 2016
Here in Los Angeles, the top City and County elections officials have
told me in public outreach meetings that their offices pay the postage
to receive vote-by-mail envelopes that arrive without stamps.
The officials do not go out of their way to publicize this.
(I understand USPS delivers the envelopes to the clerk or registrar
rather than returning them to sender or sending them to a dead letter
office.That accords with what Michael McDonald says below.)
The local ABC TV news recently ran a story -- with graphic! -- about how
mail-in ballots in different local counties “require” different numbers
of stamps.
But at least in Los Angeles County (1 stamp), and I suspect in all of
California, if you put postage on your ballot envelope, you’ve
essentially made a donation to your local government.Take that,
government-haters.
:-) dah
On 11/1/2016 2:16 PM, weichpm at earthlink.net wrote:
> In Arizona, the state (counties) DO pay the postage on the mailed-in
> ballots.
> Thanks for the discussion.
> --Paul
>
> ___________________
> --Law Offices of Paul Weich--
> (480) 759-1983
> Paul.Weich.Law at gmail.com
> www.PWLawArizona.com
> *From:* Gaddie, Ronald K.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 1, 2016 1:34 PM
> *To:* Michael McDonald ; Paul Gronke
> *Cc:* John Farrell ; Election Law
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Postage Question
>
> Awesome! THX Mike.
>
> Ronald Keith Gaddie, Ph.D.
> /President's Associates Presidential Professor/
> Chair, Department of Political Science
> Senior Fellow, Headington College
> Associate Director, Center for Intelligence & National Security
> General Editor, /Social Science Quarterly/
> The University of Oklahoma
>
> *p:* 405.325.2061**| ***e*: rkgaddie at ou.edu**| t*: *@GaddieWindage
> <https://twitter.com/gaddiewindage>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on behalf of Michael
> McDonald <dr.michael.p.mcdonald at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 1, 2016 3:25 PM
> *To:* Paul Gronke
> *Cc:* John Farrell; Election Law
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Postage Question
> The post office will deliver ballots without postage. They charge the
> local election office.
> ============
> Dr. Michael P. McDonald
> Associate Professor, University of Florida
> 352-273-2371
> www.electproject.org <http://www.electproject.org>
> @ElectProject
> On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Paul Gronke <paul.gronke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> John
> Yep, the only minor thing I describe differently is that I use the
> word “scan” or “image” rather than “counting.”
> “Counting” means you are actually pressing a “tally” or “total”
> button that takes the ballot images stored in the machine (even if
> op-scanned) and then and only then produces a “report” that
> includes a sum of the votes cast.
> It’s an important distinction to make with reporters, who once you
> use the word “count” assume there is a total sitting there, like
> it’s on a computer screen or something, that someone can just read
> off of a piece of paper. You have to generate the report, and a
> record of that task is stored in the machine's memory.
> ---
> Paul Gronke
> Professor, Reed College
> Director, Early Voting Information Center
> http://earlyvoting.net
>
> General Inquiries: Laura Swann swannla at reed.edu
>
> Media Inquiries: Kevin Myers myersk at reed.edu
>
> Other email: paul.gronke at reed.edu
>
>> On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:43 PM, John Farrell
>> <jfarrell at mccandlishlawyers.com> wrote:
>>
>> Seriously, this has been figured out in most states.
>> The ballots are returned to the general registrar or the clerk of
>> the local government at the town/city hall or county courthouse
>> (not the polling place since most of those locations are
>> temporary, i.e., a public school, church, social hall, YMCA etc.).
>> The returned ballots are maintained in a locked room until
>> processed. Some states allow the mailed-in ballots to be
>> reviewed for completeness when received. Some states even allow
>> the local election administrator to enter them into the counting
>> device immediately after they are received and check for
>> completeness. In those cases, the counting machine and the
>> counted ballots are kept in a secure room before election day.
>> In some states, the return envelope with the mailed-in ballots
>> are sent to the precinct of origin, checked in by the election
>> officials in that precinct and put through the counting machine
>> on election day and reported as part of the precinct return.
>> In others, the ballots are put through a counting machine in a
>> central absentee precinct; the results printed out after the
>> regular polls close and the results made know after the tally
>> sheets are completed.
>>
>> John W. Farrell
>> Attorney at Law
>>
>> <McCandlish-logo-200x45.gif> <http://mccandlishlawyers.com/>
>>
>>
>> 11350 Random Hills Road | Suite 500
>> Fairfax, Virginia 22030-7421
>> tel (703) 934-1182 cell (703) 507-1182
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>>
>>> On Nov 1, 2016, at 3:21 PM, Paul Gronke <paul.gronke at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Keith
>>> Absolutely not. I am not sure how many states actually allow this.
>>> This creates a fairly serious hitch in the election
>>> administration workflow.
>>> Just work through in your head what is being proposed: voters
>>> can drop off absentee ballots at a polling place. Where do those
>>> ballots go? Do we maintain secure ballot drop boxes at every
>>> polling place?
>>> Ok suppose we do that. Now, when do those envelopes (not
>>> ballots) get processed? When are signatures checked? For
>>> states with voter intent provisions, how are the ballots “remade”?
>>> And finally, when are the ballot counted?
>>> In California, over a million absentee ballots are dropped off
>>> at precinct places on election day. The California clerks have
>>> very good procedures for dealing with these, but if you are
>>> going to allow this, you must also be willing to wait for
>>> election results. Most counties that I am aware of don’t even
>>> begin to process those absentee ballots until they open for
>>> business on Wednesday.
>>> ---
>>> Paul Gronke
>>> Professor, Reed College
>>> Director, Early Voting Information Center
>>> http://earlyvoting.net <http://earlyvoting.net/>
>>>
>>> General Inquiries: Laura Swann swannla at reed.edu
>>>
>>> Media Inquiries: Kevin Myers myersk at reed.edu
>>>
>>> Other email: paul.gronke at reed.edu
>>>> On Nov 1, 2016, at 12:13 PM, Gaddie, Ronald K.
>>>> <rkgaddie at ou.edu> wrote:
>>>> Understood. Does the ability to drop at any polling place in a
>>>> state hold across all states?
>>>> Ronald Keith Gaddie, Ph.D.
>>>> /President's Associates Presidential Professor/
>>>> Chair, Department of Political Science
>>>> Senior Fellow, Headington College
>>>> Associate Director, Center for Intelligence & National Security
>>>> General Editor,/Social Science Quarterly/
>>>> The University of Oklahoma
>>>>
>>>> *p:*405.325.2061 <tel:405.325.2061>**|***e*:rkgaddie at ou.edu**|
>>>> t*:*@GaddieWindage <https://twitter.com/gaddiewindage>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:*Richard Winger <richardwinger at yahoo.com>
>>>> *Sent:*Tuesday, November 1, 2016 2:09 PM
>>>> *To:*Gaddie, Ronald K.; Election Law
>>>> *Subject:*Re: [EL] Postage Question
>>>> because the voter is free to drop it off at any polling place
>>>> or voting center on election day. The postage is not a
>>>> requirement for returning the voted ballot.
>>>> Richard Winger 415-922-9779 <tel:415-922-9779> PO Box 470296,
>>>> San Francisco Ca 94147
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *From:*"Gaddie, Ronald K." <rkgaddie at ou.edu>
>>>> *To:*Election Law <Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
>>>> *Sent:*Tuesday, November 1, 2016 11:19 AM
>>>> *Subject:*[EL] Postage Question
>>>> Query: A former student, who is a lawyer and a Ph.D. candidate,
>>>> wrote and asks "how is paying postage on an absentee ballot not
>>>> a poll tax?"
>>>>
>>>> Any knowledgable answers are greatly appreciated.
>>>> Ronald Keith Gaddie, Ph.D.
>>>> /President's Associates Presidential Professor/
>>>> Chair, Department of Political Science
>>>> Senior Fellow, Headington College
>>>> Associate Director, Center for Intelligence & National Security
>>>> General Editor,/Social Science Quarterly/
>>>> The University of Oklahoma
>>>>
>>>> *p:*405.325.2061 <tel:405.325.2061>**|***e*:rkgaddie at ou.edu**|
>>>> t*:*@GaddieWindage <https://twitter.com/gaddiewindage>
>>>>
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--
David A. Holtzman, M.P.H., J.D.
david at holtzmanlaw.com
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