[EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration

Wed Feb 15 09:05:17 PST 2017

We had a bit of a contretemps in New Mexico a few years back when our SoS
decided to compare voting data to Social Securty and Motor Vehicles data.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/31/nation/la-na-voter-fraud-20110731

The claim went from 64,000 fraudulent voters, to none (see this article,
which details the SoS fight with the ACLU over records, and the office's
balking at paying the penalty for losing an inspection of public records
case:
http://nmpoliticalreport.com/92199/sos-says-they-cant-pay-open-records-penalty/
):

"In 2011, shortly after taking office, Duran said that 117 people
registered to vote did so illegally and that 37 illegally voted in
elections.

Duran later sent the names of 64,000 individuals she felt potentially
fraudulently registered to vote or even voted to the Department of Public
Safety.

At this time, the ACLU sought documentation to support Duran’s claims of
voter fraud, under the state’s Inspection of Public Records Act. Duran’s
office never turned over all the requested documents, though did release
some redacted documents, and a district court judge found Duran’s office
violated the law. This prompted the original order of attorney’s fees.

Also, the Secretary of State’s office admitted that the list of 117 who
allegedly were registered and 37 who allegedly voted “did not, in fact,
exist and never have.”

They said they instead just checked the Motor Vehicle Department Foreign
National Database against the voter rolls to make the determination."

As a side note, that same SoS spent time in prison on various unrelated
charges.

Douglas Carver
Albuquerque, NM

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Hess, Doug <HESSDOUG at grinnell.edu> wrote:

> “For example, people assume Social Security data is highly accurate when
> it is not--the trustworthiness of their records are much better when people
> start receiving benefits.  This is why people who are planning to retire
> are informed they must start the process to receive benefits months in
> advance.”
>
>
>
> Just a quick comment on Social Security: Years ago when the question of
> “automatic” registration started kicking around, I asked a friend that
> works for the Senate Finance Committee about the accuracy of Social
> Security data. He went on, at length, about problems with SS data. He
> mentioned that there is a large list of SSN that have been used multiple
> times (I believe this was from people faking SSNs, but am not sure). He
> sent me some technical reports on this. While I doubt I could find them
> now, surely some analysts in government can speak to the utility of using
> SSN. Of course, Brenana Center and others likely have comments on this, too.
>
>
>
> Douglas R Hess
>
> Assistant Professor of Political Science
>
> On research leave for Fall Semester 2016.
>
> http://www.douglasrhess.com
>
>
>
> Grinnell College
> 1210 Park Street, Carnegie Hall #309
> Grinnell, IA 50112
>
> phone: 641-269-4383 <(641)%20269-4383>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lillie Coney [mailto:coney at lillieconey.net]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:46 PM
> *To:* Kevin Benson <kbenson at whitehartlaw.com>
> *Cc:* law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> This is a bad data accuracy idea that just will not go away.
>
>
>
> Two data sets created for different purposes cannot be used to
> authenticate records with the needed level of accuracy.
>
>
>
> Create a  data set that collects and retains only what is needed for the
> purpose of the collection.
>
>
>
> Data models that ignore accuracy at the expense of the data subject is a
> disservice to the expense and time invested in creating it.
>
>
>
> I would like to see routine accuracy reporting  for data brokers that may
> be the only way to dissuade people from attempting one-to-one matching
> among or between disparate data sets.
>
>
>
> Some problem are common names, the birthday problem or paradox, truncated
> addresses that are compared to full spellings of street names or data input
> errors in one data set having superior trust over accurate data in another
> data set.
>
>
>
> For example, people assume Social Security data is highly accurate when it
> is not--the trustworthiness of their records are much better when people
> start receiving benefits.  This is why people who are planning to retire
> are informed they must start the process to receive benefits months in
> advance.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2017, at 11:13 AM, Kevin Benson <kbenson at whitehartlaw.com>
> wrote:
>
> Our Secretary of State is proposing to crosscheck the voter registration
> database with Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements Program
> (SAVE).
>
> https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/cegavske-no-
> evidence-illegal-votes-voter-registration-fraud-bigger-people-realize
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__thenevadaindependent.com_article_cegavske-2Dno-2Devidence-2Dillegal-2Dvotes-2Dvoter-2Dregistration-2Dfraud-2Dbigger-2Dpeople-2Drealize&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=SDHIBIh6nyDADPy5sjaAzuKTBERyfFjeiugwndkdko0&e=>
>
> I am not familiar with SAVE, but just off the cuff I'd hazard a guess that
> access is limited to certain programs, as a matter of federal law. But
> that's a wag. I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on whether this
> can be done, with or without a change in federal law, and if so, what the
> quality of the system is and whether it would work for voter registration.
>
> Kevin
>
> --
>
> Kevin Benson, Esq.
>
> White Hart Law
>
> 2310 S. Carson Street #6
>
> Carson City, NV 89701
>
> (775) 461-3780
>
> kbenson at whitehartlaw.com
>
>
>
> On 2/14/2017 6:31 AM, Jon Sherman wrote:
>
> REAL ID has been fully implemented in some, if not most, states. I don't
> know what that count is but some organization must track it. As you noted,
> proof of US citizenship or legal presence is required, but what matters
> more than what appears on the face of the card is whether the state DMV
> database distinguishes between those who showed proof of US citizenship and
> those who showed proof of legal presence but not US citizenship. Automatic
> voter registration bills across the country are forcing conversations like
> this because the success of AVR depends on DMV procedures in accepting,
> verifying and maintaining records on applicants' proof of US citizenship.
> So, for states with DMVs that are distinguishing between proof of US
> citizenship and proof of lawful presence and maintaining accurate records,
> it is possible for the state to use the DMV database to verify that someone
> is a US citizen - at least for those voter registration applicants who hold
> a DMV product. What they can't do is use the same database to verify that
> someone is a non-citizen because the person may have naturalized since they
> obtained a driver's license or state ID. I'm sure there are some states
> that commingle proof of US citizenship and proof of lawful presence such
> that they cannot rely on that database but I don't think that issue has
> been comprehensively investigated. Hope this helps.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:57 PM, Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu> wrote:
>
> Another source of data is after-the-fact investigations of suspected voter
> fraud.   SOS Kobach, for example, has claimed noncitizen voting is a big
> problem but has not brought a single prosecution for that yet.
>
> Or there was this big study of Va non-citizen voting that found very
> little (despite the hype):
>
> http://electionlawblog.org/?p=87096
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D87096&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=oLSdYMkhbdHDmvXj0owVYfkJ6gt5rxrfwJ7LiAyo164&e=>
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *<law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on behalf of
> Thessalia Merivaki <liamerivaki at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, February 13, 2017 at 3:24 PM
> *To: *"Pildes, Rick" <pildesr at mercury.law.nyu.edu>
> *Cc: *Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> Individual rejected voter registration data show that states process voter
> registration applications differently. In Florida, if the citizen box is
> not checked, and if the SSN is missing, then the application is immediately
> rejected with the individual being marked as "non-citizen" and "missing
> SSN".
>
>
>
> In GA, individual applications are classified as "pending" if an
> applicant's citizenship status is being verified, and rejected if the
> applicant is a non-citizen.
>
>
>
> It is not very clear as to whether a non-citizen list exists that the
> election officials consult, but it is a question worth asking them on how
> they do it. My inquiries in Pinellas county, FL for instance, were very
> fruitful in understanding how local elections officials process these
> forms.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thessalia Merivaki, Ph.D.
>
>
>
> Visiting Assistant Professor
>
> Department of History and Politics
>
> Davis 234
>
> University of South Florida, St. Petersburg
>
> 352-871-5260 <%28352%29%20871-5260>
>
> Office Phone: 727-873-4495 <%28727%29%20873-4495>
>
> http://www.usfsp.edu/hp/full-time/thessalia-merivaki/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.usfsp.edu_hp_full-2Dtime_thessalia-2Dmerivaki_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=ywxD_hk_BWq4y-wMtZQq6CLX89ZU_-EoekRF4raeblc&e=>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Pildes, Rick <pildesr at mercury.law.nyu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I would appreciate help with this question, for purposes of upcoming
> classes:
>
>
>
> When registering to vote, people must check a box indicating their
> citizenship status and sign the form, with criminal penalties for perjury
> if they have knowingly falsified their status.
>
>
>
> For a State that is concerned about whether non-citizens are registering,
> despite this oath, what (if anything) can the State lawfully do to verify
> the citizenship status of potential voters?
>
>
>
> Most students are surprised to learn there is no national data base of
> citizens against which a State could check status.  Dan Tokaji has informed
> me that the Real ID Act does not provide an answer, even if it were fully
> implemented in the states (which it's not).  People are required to provide
> evidence of lawful status to get a qualifying Real ID, but permanent
> residents and asylum applicants are allowed to get it, and the ID itself
> isn't required to show citizenship or immigration status.  We know there
> are certain things the States cannot do, such as demand that the federal
> voter-registration form require documentary proof of citizenship at the
> time of registration.
>
>
>
> The same question arises for academic researchers who might be interested
> in trying to determine whether any non-citizens actually register to vote
> (whether in mistaken belief or otherwise) and if so, how many.  How would a
> researcher go about trying to get data on this question?
>
>
>
> The controversy over the Richman et. al. studies and the critiques of
> those studies, which have been highlighted on this blog, don’t answer this
> question.  See https://electionlawblog.org/?p=90668
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D90668&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=uoXmhzs6OGWbPE_4oomJhd2IBpa0bSFgAw6lYOnet7U&e=>
> and https://electionlawblog.org/?p=89545
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D89545&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=suAUFJjtJAYnIA3s2AR6DHpwbXGytTByLcnn-o3ENZQ&e=>
> and
>
> https://electionlawblog.org/?p=87732
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D87732&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=D-D02I86UisgfZRI9-aBnOU62WudgK4lnLhYUbLuSas&e=>.
> These issues concern what to make of the self-reporting of individuals on
> their citizenship and registration status in the CCES surveys.  If we
> accept that the Richman studies are meaningless, for reasons these
> critiques identify, that still does not give us an affirmative answer.
> Moreover, in the Ansolabehere/Luks/Schaffner re-survey of the 19,000
> respondents to the CCES survey of 2010, 99.25% report being citizens – so
> this pool is obviously not representative of the citizen/non-citizen
> population in general, let alone in border States like TX, AZ, and NV (even
> if we agree to rely on self-reporting).
>
>
>
> I’m inclined to tell my students there is nothing States currently can do
> to verify the citizenship status of those who register to vote as
> citizens.  But if I am missing something, I’d appreciate hearing before
> reporting that.  Even if that’s right, that does not mean there is a
> problem, of course.  My own instinct is to think there isn’t a meaningful
> problem.  I suspect the most reliable place to find credible information
> would come from election-contest litigation, in which each ballot is
> examined one by one.  But I’d appreciate any further insights.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> Richard H. Pildes
>
> Sudler Family Professor of Constitutional Law
>
> NYU School of Law
>
> 40 Washington Square South, NY, NY 10012
>
> 212 998-6377 <%28212%29%20998-6377>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Thessalia Merivaki, Ph.D.
>
>
>
> Visiting Assistant Professor
>
> Department of History and Politics
>
> Davis 234
>
> University of South Florida, St. Petersburg
>
> 352-871-5260 <%28352%29%20871-5260>
>
> Office Phone: 727-873-4495 <%28727%29%20873-4495>
>
> http://www.usfsp.edu/hp/full-time/thessalia-merivaki/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.usfsp.edu_hp_full-2Dtime_thessalia-2Dmerivaki_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=ywxD_hk_BWq4y-wMtZQq6CLX89ZU_-EoekRF4raeblc&e=>
>
>
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>
>
> --
>
> Jon Sherman
>
> Counsel
> Fair Elections Legal Network
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> *
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>
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>
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