[EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
Zachary Roth
zacharyr46 at gmail.com
Wed Feb 15 17:27:07 PST 2017
I wrote about the resurgence of this way of thinking in The Great
Suppression
<http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/534138/the-great-suppression-by-zachary-roth/9781101905760/>
(see
below). Given the history, I think it's being a bit charitable to see it as
reflecting a genuine desire to promote the common good by ensuring an
informed electorate, rather than as a basically anti-democratic effort,
conscious or not, to maintain the power of elites. But it's a thing,
regardless...
CONSERVATIVES JUST DON’T think about voting the way most other Americans
do.
Liberals, even at the Founding, have seen voting straightforwardly as a
right and as our foremost guarantee of equality. Central to this idea is
the need to represent everyone’s interests. Most people don’t really
believe that elections have a right answer. Instead, we think different
candidates will benefit different groups of voters, and that most people
can figure out which candidate is on their side: parents of young children
might support a candidate who promises to invest in education, seniors
might prefer the one who promises to protect Social Security, and so on.
More people participating means more interests are represented, which leads
to a more legitimate result and a stronger democracy.
But as the election law scholar Rick Hasen has written, many conservatives
have never really bought into that way of thinking. To them, voting is much
more instrumental, with the goal of making a sensible collective choice
that will produce effec‐ tive government and promote the common good.
That’s how the eighteenth‐century New Englanders who gathered on village
greens to vote in public conceived of what they were doing. And that means
an informed, independent electorate is crucial. After all, how else can
voters be expected to choose wisely? It’s not hard to see how, under this
logic, reducing the number of uninformed voters—or less motivated voters,
or voters with less of a long‐term stake in their community—isn’t
antidemocratic, it’s civic‐minded.
Indeed, many conservatives explicitly reject the idea that everyone should
be encouraged to vote. For much of the twentieth century, this skepticism
about universal suffrage went mostly underground, as one group after
another used the language of rights and equality to gain the franchise. But
it never entirely went away. And in recent years it’s begun to be voiced
again.
Some on the right simply reject the notion that more people voting is in
itself a sign of civic health. To George Will, the Washington Post’s
influential conservative columnist, low turnout is a sign that everything’s
running smoothly. When people don’t vote, it’s because “the stakes of
politics are agreeably low because constitutional rights and other
essential elements of happiness are not menaced by elections,” Will wrote
in 2012, perhaps not defining, say, access to health insurance as essential
to happiness. Will Wilkinson, a respected libertarian writer formerly with
the Cato Institute, argues that low turnout isn’t just a sign of civic
health, it’s a cause of it. “Lower turnout sets the stage for better
democracy,” he has written, since “the flakiest voters—the ones least
motivated to show up at the polls year in and year out—also tend to be most
poorly informed.”
>From this mind‐set, it’s only a short leap to worrying more openly about
the problem of low‐quality voters. Perhaps we can’t stop them from voting
if they’re determined to do so, goes the thinking, but we certainly
shouldn’t be encouraging it. And if the election process puts up barriers
that keep these people away, so much the better. “The need to register to
vote is just about the most modest restriction on ballot access I can think
of, which is why it works so well as a democratic filter,” National Review’s
Daniel Foster wrote in 2015. “It improves democratic hygiene because the
people who can’t be bothered to register . . . are, except in unusual
cases, civic idiots.” Or here’s George Will again, in 2010: “A small voting
requirement such as registration, which calls for the individual voter’s
initiative, acts to filter potential voters with the weakest motivations.
They are apt to invest minimal effort in civic competence.”
A few prominent conservatives are willing to follow Ted Yoho to the final
step: disenfranchisement. Representative Steve King of Iowa, one of
Congress’s most influential right‐wingers, seemed to go there as he wrung
his hands about government spending at a 2011 hearing. “There was a time in
American history when you had to be a male property owner in order to
vote,” King said, anticipating Yoho. The idea, King continued, was that
voters should “have some skin in the game.” The problem today, he went on,
is that too many voters don’t pay taxes, and so “when they vote, they vote
for more government benefits.” A 2014 Fox News segment was blunter, asking:
“Is it time to revisit a test for people to be able to vote?” Minutes later
Ann Coulter got to the point: “I just think it should be a little more
difficult to vote. There’s nothing unconstitutional about literacy tests.”
Jonah Goldberg, a senior editor at National Review and an influential
pundit on the right, has proposed making would‐be voters take the same test
given to those ap‐ plying for citizenship. “Voting should be harder, not
easier,” he has written elsewhere. And Glenn Reynolds, a conservative law
professor and popular blogger, responded to the antiracism pro‐ tests that
swept college campuses in 2015 by arguing for raising the voting age to
twenty‐five.
Versions of this thinking are in vogue even among more scholarly types. In
his 2011 book, The Ethics of Voting, the liber‐ tarian law professor Jason
Brennan compared uninformed voters to drunk drivers. “I’ve actually become
more sympathetic to the idea that maybe people should be formally excluded
from voting,” Brennan told an interviewer.
It’s easy to see this kind of rhetoric as a knee‐jerk reaction to
demographic trends that favor progressives. But it also represents the
reemergence of a deeply rooted conservative fear— something close to an
ideology—that giving full voting rights to the masses will dangerously
destabilize society and usher in radical change. Throughout U.S. history,
that fear has frequently acted to slow and even reverse the march of
greater political equality—just as it’s doing today.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:42 PM, Lowenstein, Daniel <lowenstein at law.ucla.edu
> wrote:
> “Although no one seriously proposes cutting back the right to
> vote in major ways, past criticisms of universal suffrage cannot all be
> dismissed as insincere or lacking in substance. Similar arguments are
> heard today in opposition to proposals to make voting easier…. Lurking
> behind these and many [other] legal and policy disputes … is the question
> whether democracy should be thought of as competition among interests or as
> a deliberative process seeking the common good. Measures that some have
> believed would improve the deliberative quality of democracy—restricting
> the vote to property-owners or to people who can read and write, or
> requiring would-be voters to take the time to register and thereby
> demonstrate a sense of the responsibilities of a citizen—have appeared to
> others as self-interested devices to enhance the power of the well-off.”
> Lowenstein, Hasen & Tokaji, *Election Law: Cases and Materials* (4th ed.
> 2008).
>
>
>
> See also Albert O. Hirschman, *The Rhetoric of Reaction*
> (1991).
>
>
>
> This is an old argument.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Daniel Lowenstein
>
> Director
>
> UCLA Center for the
> Liberal Arts and Free Institutions (CLAFI)
>
> 310-825-5148
> <(310)%20825-5148>
>
>
> lowenstein at law.ucla.edu
>
>
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *Ilya Shapiro
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 12:50 PM
> *To:* 'greenbergk at gtlaw.com' <greenbergk at gtlaw.com>; coney at lillieconey.net;
> braterj at brennan.law.nyu.edu
> *Cc:* law-election at department-lists.uci.edu; HESSDOUG at Grinnell.EDU
>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> I don’t know, are you and/or Greenberg Traurig suggesting that only those
> who are rich or of certain races can be informed or care about governance?
> Of course, if we limited the vote to those with graduate degrees, that
> would ensure a permanent socialist majority, so I certainly wouldn’t
> suggest that…
>
>
>
> Look, all I’m saying is that high voter-participation rates aren’t
> necessarily indicative of a “good” system, a legitimate system, or even a
> healthy democracy.
>
>
>
> Ilya Shapiro
>
> Senior Fellow in Constitutional Studies,
>
> Editor-in-Chief of the *Cato Supreme Court Review*
>
> Cato Institute
>
> 1000 Massachusetts Ave. NW
>
> Washington, DC 20001
>
> tel. (202) 218-4600
>
> cel. (202) 577-1134
>
> ishapiro at cato.org
>
> Bio/clips: http://www.cato.org/people/shapiro.html
>
> Twitter: www.twitter.com/ishapiro
>
> SSRN: http://ssrn.com/author=1382023
>
>
>
> *Cato Supreme Court Review*: http://www.cato.org/supreme-court-review
>
>
>
> Watch our 2016 Constitution Day Conference - Supreme Court
> Review/Preview: http://www.cato.org/events/15th-annual-constitution-day
>
>
>
> *From:* greenbergk at gtlaw.com [mailto:greenbergk at gtlaw.com
> <greenbergk at gtlaw.com>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:26 PM
> *To:* Ilya Shapiro; coney at lillieconey.net; braterj at brennan.law.nyu.edu
> *Cc:* HESSDOUG at Grinnell.EDU; law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> *Subject:* RE: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> Ilya,
>
>
>
> Are you and/or the Cato Institute suggesting that we only allow those who
> are well educated, and, say, pass a civics test to vote? How about if they
> have sufficient means to pay a poll tax? Or limit participation to those
> with graduate degrees? Or those of a certain race?
>
> Just checking.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
> mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Ilya
> Shapiro
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:19 PM
> *To:* 'Lillie Coney'; Jonathan Brater
> *Cc:* Hess, Doug; law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> But, assuming that people who don’t vote are generally lower-information
> than those who do (and care less about public policy), how does it improve
> self-governance to simply increase voter-participation rates?
>
>
>
> (No need to answer, but in all seriousness, the question of whether/how to
> get more people to vote is completely separate from how do we ensure that
> all those who are eligible to vote can do so while stopping those who
> aren’t eligible.)
>
>
>
> Ilya Shapiro
>
> Senior Fellow in Constitutional Studies,
>
> Editor-in-Chief of the *Cato Supreme Court Review*
>
> Cato Institute
>
> 1000 Massachusetts Ave. NW
>
> Washington, DC 20001
>
> tel. (202) 218-4600
>
> cel. (202) 577-1134
>
> ishapiro at cato.org
>
> Bio/clips: http://www.cato.org/people/shapiro.html
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cato.org_people_shapiro.html&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=kHnSbXybEtneb2YCV7PPSxRkjWxd3Z7lucYZgaqWMa4&e=>
>
> Twitter: www.twitter.com/ishapiro
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.twitter.com_ishapiro&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=ZgPApis-YfhQYfXgCKBCX5j5w2bSDCzIQ001rHomiyM&e=>
>
> SSRN: http://ssrn.com/author=1382023
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ssrn.com_author-3D1382023&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=EZd1K_KlTHemFWoBGiw2GC2iVFi4S2tA0UcYRsISpNY&e=>
>
>
>
> *Cato Supreme Court Review*: http://www.cato.org/supreme-court-review
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cato.org_supreme-2Dcourt-2Dreview&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=0VdSj_M7xRS1c2T93rMv9KuoI17sxQIrqb4RoMfq5r4&e=>
>
>
>
> Watch our 2016 Constitution Day Conference - Supreme Court
> Review/Preview: http://www.cato.org/events/15th-annual-constitution-day
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cato.org_events_15th-2Dannual-2Dconstitution-2Dday&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=B6KKCUqy00_d6Ock9f5pNDcQ7ql7TqR4s0CzrJj7QSY&e=>
>
>
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
> mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Lillie
> Coney
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 3:03 PM
> *To:* Jonathan Brater
> *Cc:* law-election at department-lists.uci.edu; Hess, Doug
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> The fundamental problem with using one database to authenticate people is
> that is does not nor will it ever work.
>
>
>
> Even if the SSN database was accurate it would yield false positives and
> false negatives if it were used to authenticate registered voters.
>
>
>
> It is not the accuracy of the data that causes a huge data accuracy
> problem it is the divergent purposes of the data collection for one system
> of records when compared to another that was created for a different
> purpose. The data collection, retention and uses do not match the purposes
> that another database may have been created to serve.
>
>
>
> Further the one to one matching by schema e.g each data field will vary
> due to human error, how each system treats input, the lack of uniformity on
> how data is stored, and used.
>
>
>
> To solve the problem it would be better to provide a registered voter
> document to each citizen upon attaining 18 years of age or naturalization
> status. Our national crisis is not too many voters of questionable origin
> voting it is in fact too few qualified people not participating in the self
> governance mechanism of voting.
>
>
>
> I think about low voter participation as a critical issue because it puts
> self governance at risk.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2017, at 2:30 PM, Jonathan Brater <braterj at brennan.law.nyu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Doug.
>
>
>
> There are indeed data-quality issues with SSNs. Some states use the SSA
> Death Master File for the purpose of identifying registered voters who have
> died. As an OIG report shows (and as SSA has acknowledged), this list has
> errors
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__oig.ssa.gov_newsroom_congressional-2Dtestimony_march16-2Dhsgac&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=dfapfbEHn4O65kjVto0N77I5A1jccRduGopLNg6EW-8&e=>.
> Regardless, because certain categories of noncitizens have social security
> numbers, SSN is not going to be dispositive on citizenship status. Under
> HAVA, voter registration applicants with a SSN might be asked to provide
> the last 4 digits, but this is for identify verification rather than
> eligibility verification.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jonathan Brater
>
> Counsel, Democracy Program
>
> Brennan Center for Justice at NYU School of Law
>
> (646) 292-8373
>
> jonathan.brater at nyu.edu
>
> www.brennancenter.org
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.brennancenter.org_&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=45ohaLK-WRqIoNI7rzdShj0QiR7XO0Kqg5hrxyayrX8&e=>
> <image001.jpg>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_BrennanCenter&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=DmKwSG0V2u1YNKHrBDfibwzatxhMnb3XRJBac9SxL3U&e=>
> <image002.jpg>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_BrennanCenter&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=K05x3fuVnvYtXhmQQHsdwDgRA2wOQs125janlHdlYPc&e=>
> <image003.jpg>
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.youtube.com_profile-3Fuser-3DTheBrennanCenter&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=cMaC2HKEKYPDssjVU7pe1_E9-fbw-Lz_xmKGgJDxD9o&e=>
>
>
>
> *We have moved! Our new address is: *
>
> *120 Broadway*
>
> *Suite 1750*
>
> *New York, New York 10271*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
> mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Hess, Doug
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 11:22 AM
> *To:* Lillie Coney; Kevin Benson
> *Cc:* law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> “For example, people assume Social Security data is highly accurate when
> it is not--the trustworthiness of their records are much better when people
> start receiving benefits. This is why people who are planning to retire
> are informed they must start the process to receive benefits months in
> advance.”
>
>
>
> Just a quick comment on Social Security: Years ago when the question of
> “automatic” registration started kicking around, I asked a friend that
> works for the Senate Finance Committee about the accuracy of Social
> Security data. He went on, at length, about problems with SS data. He
> mentioned that there is a large list of SSN that have been used multiple
> times (I believe this was from people faking SSNs, but am not sure). He
> sent me some technical reports on this. While I doubt I could find them
> now, surely some analysts in government can speak to the utility of using
> SSN. Of course, Brenana Center and others likely have comments on this, too.
>
>
>
> Douglas R Hess
>
> Assistant Professor of Political Science
>
>
>
> On research leave for Fall Semester 2016.
>
> http://www.douglasrhess.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.douglasrhess.com_&d=DwMGaQ&c=2s2mvbfY0UoSKkl6_Ol9wg&r=RKJ_pThjMyN_xzS53wJy8AHaUXwt6NdBkZ_r4PPJGs0&m=Gs83kO0DUlG_yvjr0YL1ZiRxVeadgZ07P8VDVpQMiWw&s=NsgJS0j6iyljfFF7qt0W3kEqpJxpn4EO_5t2BtqVZws&e=>
>
>
>
> Grinnell College
> 1210 Park Street, Carnegie Hall #309
> Grinnell, IA 50112
>
> phone: 641-269-4383 <(641)%20269-4383>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lillie Coney [mailto:coney at lillieconey.net <coney at lillieconey.net>]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 1:46 PM
> *To:* Kevin Benson <kbenson at whitehartlaw.com>
> *Cc:* law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> This is a bad data accuracy idea that just will not go away.
>
>
>
> Two data sets created for different purposes cannot be used to
> authenticate records with the needed level of accuracy.
>
>
>
> Create a data set that collects and retains only what is needed for the
> purpose of the collection.
>
>
>
> Data models that ignore accuracy at the expense of the data subject is a
> disservice to the expense and time invested in creating it.
>
>
>
> I would like to see routine accuracy reporting for data brokers that may
> be the only way to dissuade people from attempting one-to-one matching
> among or between disparate data sets.
>
>
>
> Some problem are common names, the birthday problem or paradox, truncated
> addresses that are compared to full spellings of street names or data input
> errors in one data set having superior trust over accurate data in another
> data set.
>
>
>
> For example, people assume Social Security data is highly accurate when it
> is not--the trustworthiness of their records are much better when people
> start receiving benefits. This is why people who are planning to retire
> are informed they must start the process to receive benefits months in
> advance.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Feb 14, 2017, at 11:13 AM, Kevin Benson <kbenson at whitehartlaw.com>
> wrote:
>
> Our Secretary of State is proposing to crosscheck the voter registration
> database with Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements Program
> (SAVE).
>
> https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/cegavske-no-
> evidence-illegal-votes-voter-registration-fraud-bigger-people-realize
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__thenevadaindependent.com_article_cegavske-2Dno-2Devidence-2Dillegal-2Dvotes-2Dvoter-2Dregistration-2Dfraud-2Dbigger-2Dpeople-2Drealize&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=SDHIBIh6nyDADPy5sjaAzuKTBERyfFjeiugwndkdko0&e=>
>
> I am not familiar with SAVE, but just off the cuff I'd hazard a guess that
> access is limited to certain programs, as a matter of federal law. But
> that's a wag. I'd be interested in hearing others' thoughts on whether this
> can be done, with or without a change in federal law, and if so, what the
> quality of the system is and whether it would work for voter registration.
>
> Kevin
>
> --
>
> Kevin Benson, Esq.
>
> White Hart Law
>
> 2310 S. Carson Street #6
>
> Carson City, NV 89701
>
> (775) 461-3780
>
> kbenson at whitehartlaw.com
>
>
>
> On 2/14/2017 6:31 AM, Jon Sherman wrote:
>
> REAL ID has been fully implemented in some, if not most, states. I don't
> know what that count is but some organization must track it. As you noted,
> proof of US citizenship or legal presence is required, but what matters
> more than what appears on the face of the card is whether the state DMV
> database distinguishes between those who showed proof of US citizenship and
> those who showed proof of legal presence but not US citizenship. Automatic
> voter registration bills across the country are forcing conversations like
> this because the success of AVR depends on DMV procedures in accepting,
> verifying and maintaining records on applicants' proof of US citizenship.
> So, for states with DMVs that are distinguishing between proof of US
> citizenship and proof of lawful presence and maintaining accurate records,
> it is possible for the state to use the DMV database to verify that someone
> is a US citizen - at least for those voter registration applicants who hold
> a DMV product. What they can't do is use the same database to verify that
> someone is a non-citizen because the person may have naturalized since they
> obtained a driver's license or state ID. I'm sure there are some states
> that commingle proof of US citizenship and proof of lawful presence such
> that they cannot rely on that database but I don't think that issue has
> been comprehensively investigated. Hope this helps.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:57 PM, Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu> wrote:
>
> Another source of data is after-the-fact investigations of suspected voter
> fraud. SOS Kobach, for example, has claimed noncitizen voting is a big
> problem but has not brought a single prosecution for that yet.
>
> Or there was this big study of Va non-citizen voting that found very
> little (despite the hype):
>
> http://electionlawblog.org/?p=87096
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D87096&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=oLSdYMkhbdHDmvXj0owVYfkJ6gt5rxrfwJ7LiAyo164&e=>
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *<law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on behalf of
> Thessalia Merivaki <liamerivaki at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, February 13, 2017 at 3:24 PM
> *To: *"Pildes, Rick" <pildesr at mercury.law.nyu.edu>
> *Cc: *Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: [EL] Verifying Citizenship For Voter Registration
>
>
>
> Individual rejected voter registration data show that states process voter
> registration applications differently. In Florida, if the citizen box is
> not checked, and if the SSN is missing, then the application is immediately
> rejected with the individual being marked as "non-citizen" and "missing
> SSN".
>
>
>
> In GA, individual applications are classified as "pending" if an
> applicant's citizenship status is being verified, and rejected if the
> applicant is a non-citizen.
>
>
>
> It is not very clear as to whether a non-citizen list exists that the
> election officials consult, but it is a question worth asking them on how
> they do it. My inquiries in Pinellas county, FL for instance, were very
> fruitful in understanding how local elections officials process these
> forms.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thessalia Merivaki, Ph.D.
>
>
>
> Visiting Assistant Professor
>
> Department of History and Politics
>
> Davis 234
>
> University of South Florida, St. Petersburg
>
> 352-871-5260 <%28352%29%20871-5260>
>
> Office Phone: 727-873-4495 <%28727%29%20873-4495>
>
> http://www.usfsp.edu/hp/full-time/thessalia-merivaki/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.usfsp.edu_hp_full-2Dtime_thessalia-2Dmerivaki_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=ywxD_hk_BWq4y-wMtZQq6CLX89ZU_-EoekRF4raeblc&e=>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Pildes, Rick <pildesr at mercury.law.nyu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I would appreciate help with this question, for purposes of upcoming
> classes:
>
>
>
> When registering to vote, people must check a box indicating their
> citizenship status and sign the form, with criminal penalties for perjury
> if they have knowingly falsified their status.
>
>
>
> For a State that is concerned about whether non-citizens are registering,
> despite this oath, what (if anything) can the State lawfully do to verify
> the citizenship status of potential voters?
>
>
>
> Most students are surprised to learn there is no national data base of
> citizens against which a State could check status. Dan Tokaji has informed
> me that the Real ID Act does not provide an answer, even if it were fully
> implemented in the states (which it's not). People are required to provide
> evidence of lawful status to get a qualifying Real ID, but permanent
> residents and asylum applicants are allowed to get it, and the ID itself
> isn't required to show citizenship or immigration status. We know there
> are certain things the States cannot do, such as demand that the federal
> voter-registration form require documentary proof of citizenship at the
> time of registration.
>
>
>
> The same question arises for academic researchers who might be interested
> in trying to determine whether any non-citizens actually register to vote
> (whether in mistaken belief or otherwise) and if so, how many. How would a
> researcher go about trying to get data on this question?
>
>
>
> The controversy over the Richman et. al. studies and the critiques of
> those studies, which have been highlighted on this blog, don’t answer this
> question. See https://electionlawblog.org/?p=90668
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D90668&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=uoXmhzs6OGWbPE_4oomJhd2IBpa0bSFgAw6lYOnet7U&e=>
> and https://electionlawblog.org/?p=89545
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D89545&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=suAUFJjtJAYnIA3s2AR6DHpwbXGytTByLcnn-o3ENZQ&e=>
> and
>
> https://electionlawblog.org/?p=87732
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__electionlawblog.org_-3Fp-3D87732&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=D-D02I86UisgfZRI9-aBnOU62WudgK4lnLhYUbLuSas&e=>.
> These issues concern what to make of the self-reporting of individuals on
> their citizenship and registration status in the CCES surveys. If we
> accept that the Richman studies are meaningless, for reasons these
> critiques identify, that still does not give us an affirmative answer.
> Moreover, in the Ansolabehere/Luks/Schaffner re-survey of the 19,000
> respondents to the CCES survey of 2010, 99.25% report being citizens – so
> this pool is obviously not representative of the citizen/non-citizen
> population in general, let alone in border States like TX, AZ, and NV (even
> if we agree to rely on self-reporting).
>
>
>
> I’m inclined to tell my students there is nothing States currently can do
> to verify the citizenship status of those who register to vote as
> citizens. But if I am missing something, I’d appreciate hearing before
> reporting that. Even if that’s right, that does not mean there is a
> problem, of course. My own instinct is to think there isn’t a meaningful
> problem. I suspect the most reliable place to find credible information
> would come from election-contest litigation, in which each ballot is
> examined one by one. But I’d appreciate any further insights.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> Richard H. Pildes
>
> Sudler Family Professor of Constitutional Law
>
> NYU School of Law
>
> 40 Washington Square South, NY, NY 10012
>
> 212 998-6377 <%28212%29%20998-6377>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Thessalia Merivaki, Ph.D.
>
>
>
> Visiting Assistant Professor
>
> Department of History and Politics
>
> Davis 234
>
> University of South Florida, St. Petersburg
>
> 352-871-5260 <%28352%29%20871-5260>
>
> Office Phone: 727-873-4495 <%28727%29%20873-4495>
>
> http://www.usfsp.edu/hp/full-time/thessalia-merivaki/
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.usfsp.edu_hp_full-2Dtime_thessalia-2Dmerivaki_&d=DwMFaQ&c=HUrdOLg_tCr0UMeDjWLBOM9lLDRpsndbROGxEKQRFzk&r=xr_OjwGHtP-zw6I-DJj_MQ4cusLbiVT1bScGa0c8ZJo&m=zb5aR0CbAv4_swNIqcUuBcCuUmOOY54gO77HbKZHLQ4&s=ywxD_hk_BWq4y-wMtZQq6CLX89ZU_-EoekRF4raeblc&e=>
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>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Jon Sherman
>
> Counsel
> Fair Elections Legal Network
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> *
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>
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