[EL] What could be done

Sun Jan 8 13:01:11 PST 2017

I would refer Terry to the FoxNews Russian apologist machine that is
occuring right now to challenge the assertion that Russia's interference in
the election harmed Trump in anyway - nor seemingly did his association
with and strong support from neo-nazis and white nationalists.

- sent via mobile device

On Jan 8, 2017 3:41 PM, "Terry Martin" <tjm5da at virginia.edu> wrote:

> This illustrates a good point regarding the cure for speech being more
> speech. The perception of Trump being helped by Russia, which Obama and the
> Dems repeatedly hammered on after the emails were released, is reasonable
> to assume hurt Trump far more than the knowledge that Hillary and the DNC
> engaged in corrupt behavior, which was already known or at least widely
> suspected. This is why the cure for speech-related offenses is not an
> election challenge, as it is for vote counting issues and other issues
> deriving from the mechanics of the process, which are not relevant here.
>
> On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Larry Levine <larrylevine at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I don’t think it’s a question of “embarrassing details regarding emails”
>> so much as a reinforcement of the negative imaging of Clinton that was the
>> central thrust of the Trump campaign.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* John Shockley [mailto:shockley1894 at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 08, 2017 12:17 PM
>> *To:* Terry Martin <tjm5da at virginia.edu>
>> *Cc:* larrylevine at earthlink.net; law-election at uci.edu;
>> law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] What could be done
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear All:
>>
>> I think it is reasonable to assume that the Russian hacking changed the
>> results because the election was extremely close, and Donald Trump used the
>> emails often in his attacks on Hillary Clinton during the campaign.  He
>> would have ignored the emails had he not found them helpful!  Instead, day
>> after day as they dribbled out, he used them as more examples of "crooked
>> Hillary."  Given how extremely close the election was, any of a number of
>> things plausibly made the difference, including of course the Comey
>> actions.  When you realize that Hillary lost Michigan by just over 10,000
>> votes out of 4.8 million votes cast, and that a change of only 5,000+ votes
>> would have given her Michigan, it is quite plausible.  The same with
>> Wisconsin--a change of hardly 11,000 votes (she lost the state by less than
>> 23,000) out of nearly 3 million votes cast, and Pennsylvania (a change of
>> 23,000 votes out of over 6 million cast).  Again, your best proof is Donald
>> Trump's actions and the extremely narrow margin by which he won those three
>> states (and Florida).
>>
>> He was very, very lucky, and of course he is grateful to Putin for the
>> help.
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> John Shockley, Ph.D.
>>
>> Department of Political Science, retired
>>
>> Augsburg College
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 8, 2017 at 9:52 AM, Terry Martin <tjm5da at virginia.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I must wonder why "it is reasonable to believe [Russian hacking] changed
>> the results of the election." Is there data to support this or is it mere
>> speculation? I suppose if one were to believe that there were enough voters
>> in those swing states for whom embarrassing details regarding emails made
>> the difference that would make sense, which would be necessary to reach
>> this conclusion given that the report concludes that there was no evidence
>> of tampering with the vote tally. However, with such vast differences in
>> policy and public perceptions of the candidates (recall that Hillary was
>> widely viewed as corrupt and untrustworthy even absent the emails), I am
>> hesitant to believe that details released in emails would cause enough
>> voters to free the Clinton camp for Trump's, to vote for Johnson/Stein, or
>> simply stay home in a way that would change the outcome in states totaling
>> 38 electoral votes (would need a combination of the following: Michigan -
>> 16, Pennsylvania - 20, Wisconsin - 10, Florida - 29, meaning either
>> FL+MI/WI/PA or PA+MI+WI).
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 9:50 PM, Larry Levine <larrylevine at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> In an election as close as this one was in several key states, I think it
>> can be concluded that the actions of the Russian government influenced
>> public opinion in the U.S. to a degree that it is reasonable to believe it
>> changed the result of the election. But under our system, even if it were
>> proved, what could be done.
>>
>> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-11-most-important
>> -lines-from-the-new-intelligence-report-on-russia%e2%80%99s-
>> hacking/ar-BBxYXGw?li=BBnb7Kz
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>
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