[EL] That out of state license

Wed May 10 10:21:52 PDT 2017

In many/most states there are things which make it more difficult for poor
people to retain their driving liberty. (Can't pay a fine or take off work
to go to court, and the court will suspend your license and tack on huge
penalties).

We can say this is somewhat oppressive. But if you really want to be able
to oppress or at least disregard the interests of some sect of people,
the best way to start at is to make it harder for them to vote. Just
because it's too abstract for individuals to value it more than things like
their driving liberty, doesn't mean it's not one of the supremely important
rights. It may only be second to speech (How would you know whom to vote
for without free political discourse and spreading of information about
candidates?)

Tom Cares

...Of course, this is not a view that particularly belongs to me. In 1963,
Wesberry v. Sanders, the US Supreme Court said (emphasis added):

No right is more precious in a free country than that of having a voice in
the election of those who make the laws under which, as good citizens, we
must live. *Other rights, even the most basic, are illusory if the right to
vote is undermined.* Our Constitution leaves no room for classification of
people in a way that unnecessarily abridges this right. In urging the
people to adopt the Constitution, Madison said in No. 57 of The Federalist:

Who are to be the electors of the Federal Representatives? Not the rich
more than the poor; not the learned more than the ignorant; not the haughty
heirs of distinguished names more than the humble sons of obscure and
unpropitious fortune. The electors are to be the great body of the people
of the United States.

On Thursday, May 11, 2017, Smith, Brad <BSmith at law.capital.edu> wrote:

> I appreciate that difference, and it's one reason why I hestitated quite a
> bit before sending the prior post. But it doesn't answer, for me at least,
> the question.
>
> After all, if the purpose of driving is to drive, then there are no
> substitutes when prohibited from driving. Lots of people really like
> driving--in my younger days, people would often just "go for a drive."
>
> Would the effort required to get a Wisconsin driver's license really have
> been a greater inconvenience to him than the inconvenience of having to use
> public transit, walk, pay for taxis or Uber, asking others to drive, etc.?
> No where is it suggested that Mr. Reynolds could not get a driver's license
> simply by making the routine application required by law.
>
> Conversely, of course, there can be substitutes for voting--it depends on
> what you think the purpose of voting is, and what you think it
> accomplishes. If the purpose of voting (to a particular person) is to see
> the people he wants in office elected, there may be much better ways to do
> that than voting (basically, spending time and resources convincing others
> to vote). The fact that voting requires some inconvenience doesn't mean it
> is denied. Can it really be true that for at least 10+ months prior to
> election day Mr. Reynolds was so busy he could NEVER go to the DMV to
> update his license, as required by state law for at least 8 months prior to
> election day? Is there any level of inconvenience that is tolerable? I keep
> wondering what the answer is to that question.
>
> I wonder, if you asked people, which they would choose:
> a) you cannot legally drive for 9 months.
> b) you cannot legally vote in the next election.
>
> I suspect most people would chose option b. Not saying I would agree, just
> that I think they would.
>
> Again, I know this will all get caught up in the immediate politics of the
> day, but my election law classes and I have long pondered over why anyone
> bothers to vote at all. I do have my own answers to the question and I vote
> myself. I think voting is an important power and duty. But I don't think we
> give nearly enough serious thought to what voting means and how and why it
> is important, and how and why it might differ (or not) from other rights. I
> don't think saying "there are no substitutes" answers the question, at
> least not completely, though it may be part of the answer.
>
> *Bradley A. Smith*
>
> *Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault*
>
> *   Professor of Law*
>
> *Capital University Law School*
>
> *303 E. Broad St.*
>
> *Columbus, OH 43215*
>
> *614.236.6317 <(614)%20236-6317>*
>
> *http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx
> <http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx>*
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Jon Sherman [jsherman at fairelectionsnetwork.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 10, 2017 10:55 AM
> *To:* Smith, Brad
> *Cc:* Rick Hasen; Election Law Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] That out of state license
>
> Burdening voting and burdening driving are different of course. There are
> usually alternatives to driving, such as public transportation, taxis,
> walking, getting driven by a relative or friend, etc., all of which can get
> you to a polling place or a campaign office or anywhere else. But there are
> no alternatives to voting. Voting is voting - there are no substitutes.
>
> On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Smith, Brad <BSmith at law.capital.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Under Wisconsin law, after becoming a resident of the state in 2015,
>> Reynolds had 60 days to get a Wisconsin driver's license. Wisc. Statutes
>> Chp. 343, so it appears that by election day 2016, for 9 months or more Mr.
>> Reynolds had been tooling around the Dairy State illegally, but fortunately
>> was not caught.
>>
>> So, which is a worse--that until he goes to the DMV and turns in his
>> Illinois license for a Wisconsin license, Mr. Reynolds can't vote, thus
>> forfeiting an infintisimal chance of altering the election outcome, or that until
>> he goes to the DMV and turns in his Illinois license for a Wisconsin
>> license, he can't legally drive to his local party headquarters to
>> engage in volunteer activity, where his activities might actually influence
>> a dozen or more votes to support his favored candidate? (And can't legally
>> drive himself to the polls to vote, to the airport to board a plane, to the
>> bank to open a checking account, or to the drug store to buy cold medicine,
>> the examples used in the article.)
>>
>> This is actually a serious question, to which I don't know the answer
>> with certainty. I do know that governments generally have lots of rules
>> that don't serve much purpose and that often infringe on ordinary
>> liberties, whether constitutionally guaranteed or not, but support for such
>> constraints seems widespread. I wish more people were more skeptical of
>> government's asserted "interests" generally.
>>
>> And I thank Mr. Reynolds for his service to our country.
>>
>> *Bradley A. Smith*
>>
>> *Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault*
>>
>> *   Professor of Law*
>>
>> *Capital University Law School*
>>
>> *303 E. Broad St.*
>>
>> *Columbus, OH 43215*
>>
>> *614.236.6317 <(614)%20236-6317>*
>>
>> *http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx&c=E,1,1pF9aa2fEKL0bZp0M1I445mtOtvppSfQSLKEBC8LBC5g9wEbn9SzWkqmOcqEbuZGcGUbIhrrsv720lKmx2df99w2_3vxC_IvznmOAZYF4AHtsxzkJA,,&typo=1>*
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
>> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] on behalf of Rick Hasen [
>> rhasen at law.uci.edu]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 10, 2017 12:23 AM
>> *To:* Election Law Listserv
>> *Subject:* [EL] ELB News and Commentary 5/10/17
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *“In Wisconsin, ID law proved insurmountable for many voters”
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://electionlawblog.org/%3fp%3d92456&c=E,1,pq4V2ZcsBHa5fBxCb-MJvqnAQZZF7v2TYLmDCReds1r2pxFU5N7cbxcjqGZ1lNyz4UD4O64z2JFrCm7IN0hrVH3FdwwMkifll4lxc1_Db4vI&typo=1>*
>>
>> Posted on May 9, 2017 9:05 pm
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://electionlawblog.org/%3fp%3d92456&c=E,1,xNEongnvVNHg513szCSihi3ed2r9eDGEesRQscfwctPpZTjQwPy8mKLKMnSipi4JYLs3qajpkFLIRsJrlCgh-K6fDeaTW5ADSBQZsi2vq3dSGJxD1ls,&typo=1>
>>  by *Rick Hasen*
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://electionlawblog.org/%3fauthor%3d3&c=E,1,VGx8gEWwanShCDDLAkczi9sgZ0A9RcqDazSYNzM0dT26FGYh-pnmbT_2JI1lVO6MWqScwMIjEniq_qWfL7QX8lq9UjaMOMZ3IbbsdwPugaueAr_3cPMJ&typo=1>
>>
>> AP:
>> <http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/In-Wisconsin-ID-law-proved-insurmountable-for-11132489.php>
>>
>> *When Sean Reynolds
>> <http://www.seattlepi.com/search/?action=search&channel=news&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22Sean+Reynolds%22> went
>> to his polling place at a local ice skating rink on Election Day, he showed
>> his valid driver’s license. The problem? It wasn’t issued in Wisconsin.*
>>
>> *Reynolds, 30, was taken aback. He had moved to Madison in 2015 to find
>> work after leaving the Navy and receiving his associate’s degree from a
>> university in neighboring Illinois. After successfully registering to vote
>> in Wisconsin using an online website, he thought all he needed to show at
>> the polls was a current photo ID. After all, his Illinois ID was good
>> enough to board a plane, open a checking account and purchase cold
>> medicine.*
>>
>> *“Coming home and being denied the right to vote because I didn’t have a
>> specific driver’s license is very frustrating,” said Reynolds, who served
>> in both Iraq and Afghanistan providing support for special forces. “I was a
>> little incredulous that they wouldn’t accept another state’s driver’s
>> license. I didn’t understand why it was not a valid form of ID.”*
>>
>> Reynolds said he had been working 50-hour weeks, receiving hourly pay,
>> and could not afford to take time off from his job in security management
>> to visit a local DMV and transfer his license from Illinois….
>>
>> [image: hare]
>> <https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D92456&title=%E2%80%9CIn%20Wisconsin%2C%20ID%20law%20proved%20insurmountable%20for%20many%20voters%E2%80%9D>
>>
>> Posted in election administration
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://electionlawblog.org/%3fcat%3d18&c=E,1,fejluzo-pR4EIa_TOPKeQ4_06hvcXSTX_t3S16goOJud8YtAQ4n601S-bdf4SZtk1xDYjiM0iBjk0rvKAackBedN9RjMk1mXVxM6RQDczr5DKCbgqI-4n28,&typo=1>
>> , The Voting Wars
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://electionlawblog.org/%3fcat%3d60&c=E,1,ZniLMrBOXQQTezTs6sNxeN-AQNljteSB_Ozw-fnfZl10Q9DS6fhX6OkooeT_qeAAqAEDNYqG9KC1ggw44He0QOAcmS5VzjTSpkpgwQ,,&typo=1>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Law-election mailing list
>> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>> http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election
>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election&c=E,1,-pluq3aOJZII09o3kwwZPnxmbjcxjryL7PtXbnWnjt69O4KGKsG4EXrYpFhvgASAarCgntj2mPBD6cwn1tWkLHCzm4My94GwVTys4dM,&typo=1>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Sherman
> Senior Counsel
> Fair Elections Legal Network
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://www.fairelectionsnetwork.com/&c=E,1,nExbWwAFR3fPCnecYJ-ZdJD6PB8EY-hwgiU4JqLdYE8vQSOoltYQvL4jifNxkF8WnSZgrNdLNDzt2TWVfc2bte8OiDBx0vHP79RRaOrilK3hqnME4kkKYu2K&typo=1>
> *
> 1825 K Street NW, Suite 450
> Washington, D.C. 20006
> Phone: (202) 248-5346
> jsherman at fairelectionsnetwork.com
> www.fairelectionsnetwork.com
> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://www.fairelectionsnetwork.com/&c=E,1,PAgHE-455CN1qT5VbMwjmUygP6Z7Z1L1XS8fZu3u9lTzHpMPLiC_5d9348FL_Yqsy1ZpjRrfMuj5ppml1rKBzF2_u3KM560sT0xeGSnWoe0hOfllQ2Cuxuk,&typo=1>
> [image: Twitter] <https://twitter.com/fairerelections>[image: Facebook]
> <https://www.facebook.com/FairElectionsLegalNetwork>
> *The contents of this email should not be construed as legal advice.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Listservs/law-election/attachments/20170510/58bf9c80/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 2021 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://webshare.law.ucla.edu/Listservs/law-election/attachments/20170510/58bf9c80/attachment.png>