[EL] ELB News and Commentary 10/27/18

[Joseph E. La Rue]

Dear all,

First, one cannot fairly evaluate a presidency, good or bad, until after it
has ended and time has passed.  Any "historian" attempting to do so only
shows how little regard the public should give to his or her work.
Similarly, those on the Left calling Trump the worst president ever are as
misguided as those on the Right were who applied that title to Obama.  For
one thing, it is laughable to attempt to evaluate a presidency that has not
yet concluded.  For another, the perspective of time sometimes leads to
very different conclusions about presidents and their presidencies than
were accorded them by their contemporaries.

Second, I find it interesting that when Obama was president, many on the
Right described him as the Greatest! Threat! Ever!!! to our democracy.  The
Left ridiculed them, and rightly so.  Now, many on the Left are doing the
same thing with regard to Trump.  (I am right now waiting for all the
comments likely to come my way . . . "You're a moron, La Rue!  Trump really
IS the Greatest! Threat! Ever!!!", which is the exact same thing that
people on the Right used to say to me when I tried to point out that it was
foolish to call Obama by that title).

Third, I do think what I take as Jim's larger point (the fact that a
Listserve that is supposed to be for all political persuasions, but has a
decided majority subscribing to one of those persuasions, needs to be
careful lest it alienate those of other persuasions) is fair.  I know that
the majority of the listserve leans Left, and I'm okay with that, despite
the fact that I lean Right.  I'm glad to be here, glad to read the
comments, and glad to occasionally participate.  But there is a danger when
we vilify the other side as "evil", "racist", or whatever.  Certainly Trump
does that, but so do some Democratic leaders.  We on this Listserve should
be careful lest we do the same thing and become the people that we deplore,
perhaps becoming a basket of deplorables in the process--a result that I'm
confident Rick would not want, nor should any of us.

Finally, none of what I just wrote should cause anyone to think that I
disagree with what I take as Rick's larger point in the post that started
this dust-up--a point with which Jim Bopp agreed; namely, that racism
(including anti-Semitism) is alive and well, and people of good will have a
responsibility to condemn it and work to end it, regardless of their
political ideology.  I *don't* think that Trump is a racist / anti-Semite.
I *do *think that the president could do more to condemn racism, and I
*do *think
that some of his comments have been horribly wrongheaded.  But, I also
think that there is enough blame in that regard to go around, and we need
to be careful about assuming that all the evil lies with the other side or
that only our side is good and loves America.

Best wishes to you all,

Joseph
___________________
*Joseph E. La Rue*
cell: 480.737.1321
email: joseph.e.larue at gmail.com

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On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 1:51 PM Chandler Davidson <fcd at rice.edu> wrote:

> Dear Mr. Bopp,
>
> I, too, find absurd your criticism of Rick’s characterization of Trump as
> a racist.  I was born in Texas in 1936 and have lived in the state most of
> my life—teaching politics and sociology at Rice University from 1966 to
> 2003.  I know a thing or two about racism, having taught courses and
> written books and journal articles on the subject, as well as testifying as
> an expert witness in 19 voting rights cases against racially discriminatory
> laws and practices around the nation (and providing consultation in 14
> others) and I’m quite familiar with politicians encouraging racism without
> using the N word or explicitly urging discrimination or violence against
> racial or ethnic minorities.
>
> We currently are living under what several presidential historians are
> characterizing as the worst president in American history.  See, e.g.,
> http://time.com/5165686/donald-trump-last-place-presidential-greatness/
> .  I believe that one of the reasons for this is his actions encouraging
> racism.  It is time for academicians to stand up and speak out both in
> scholarly forums and publicly against this president's growing threat to
> our democracy.
>
> You might also want to take a look at this Wikipedia entry:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Donald_Trump
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chandler Davidson
> Tsanoff Professor of Sociology and Political Science
>     emeritus
>
> Rice University
>
> On Oct 29, 2018, at 4:27 PM, JBoppjr at aol.com wrote:
>
> I am loath to continue this divisive thread, but I owe at least Rick an
> explanation.
>
> Yes I thought that Rick's post claiming that Trump has encouraged 'racism'
> and violence was a "disgusting low." It was a "low," because I don't
> remember Rick ever calling Trump a "racist" of this list serve before. And
> it was "disgusting," ie  "causing a strong feeling of dislike." because I
> strongly object to calling someone a "racist" and/or complicit in acts of
> violence, without clear justification. And I don't believe there is.
>
> And his strong implication that people like me "across the aisle" are
> complicit in "racism" and "increased political violence and domestic
> terrorism," by not condemning Trump for advocating it, was frankly just too
> much.
>
> And my objection has triggered the reaction Rick could have predicted, ie,
> an equally "strong feeling of dislike,"but not just of my position on what
> he said, but hatred toward me personally.
>
> Now I understand that many liberals regularly call those who disagree with
> them "racist" and will charge them with calling for acts of violence when
> they chant "lock her up," as Rick did. So to them charges of "racism" are
> just normal political discourse.
>
> But I take it seriously, because I take racism seriously. Racism has
> resulted in the degradation, enslavement, and death of millions of human
> beings throughout the history of our world. It is a monumental evil that
> exists today and must be destroyed. But to just hurl this charge at your
> everyday political opponent is to dilute it beyond recognition and diminish
> its power of condemnation. So if, in Rick's view, Trump, Kevin McCarthy,
> Paul Ryan, all the Senate Republican and me are all racist, then what are
> we to call Hitler and Stalin so that people will know what they did and the
> enormity of their evil?
>
> But I did not join this list serve to hear the latest partisan charges and
> claims, to harangue each other on the latest political controversy, to
> suffer through more character assassinations, or to be treated to the
> current iteration of Trump Derangement Syndrome. When I want to hear this
> sort of thing, I listen to SiriusXM Progress.
>
> I joined this list serve for election law news and information and to
> participate in the occasional debate and information exchange. I was never
> informed that this was a liberal only list serve on the important political
> issue of the day or just a forum for liberal virtue signaling.
>
> So I do think that Rick has a special responsibility here to keep this
> list serve on topic and open to all. His gratuitous and unjust calling of
> the dwindling number of conservatives on this list serve "racist" does not
> serve the goals of "tolerance," "diversity," and "inclusion,"which I have
> been told over and over again were the hallmarks of the society liberals
> wanted to create.
>
> Can we just get back on topic? Jim Bopp
>
> In a message dated 10/28/2018 3:28:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> lminnite at gmail.com writes:
>
> I don't know how it happened - I'm a clutz when it comes to computer
> technology - but for reasons that honestly I do not understand, for years
> now, Jim Bopp's email has gone straight into my trash.  I thought he had
> maybe moved into philanthropy and stopped posting to Rick Hasen's Election
> Law list.  Did he ever explain what, exactly, was "disgusting" and "low"
> about Rick's commentary on the Trump-spurned festival of hate and violence
> engulfing the country?
>
> And if anyone has any advice for how I can prevent Bopp's email from
> flying into my trash, please let me know off-list.
>
> Lori Minnite
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:22 AM Ilya Shapiro <IShapiro at cato.org> wrote:
>
>> Good; HIAS helped bring my family over.
>>
>> Ilya Shapiro
>> Senior Fellow in Constitutional Studies
>> Cato Institute
>> 1000 Mass. Ave. NW
>> Washington, DC 20001
>> (o) 202-218-4600
>> (c) 202-577-1134
>> Twitter: @ishapiro
>> http://www.cato.org/people/shapiro.html
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2018, at 11:13 AM, henry weinstein <
>> henryelliotweinstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have been a participant in the Election List Serve since 2000. It has
>> been an important source of illumination on issues vital to a democratic. I
>> write to align myself with the comments my colleague Rick Hasen posted
>> yesterday. I find it striking that the critics of Rick's post have nothing
>> meaningful to say about hate and violence and the regrettable, ongoing
>> growth of a fact-free universe in this country. The Pittsburgh shooter told
>> police Jews were slaughtering his people. Pure hate-filled, white power
>> fantasy.  I just contributed to the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society.
>> Henry Weinstein
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 10:30 PM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Well said, Larry.  At some point, one can be silent no longer.  Trump is
>>> a despicable human being who has set the tone and who has encouraged and
>>> unleashed the worst elements in our society.  He has debased our country
>>> and what it should stand for.  And those who continuously enable and
>>> apologize for him because he happens to give them tax cuts, deregulation,
>>> and conservative judges (or whatever other part of his agenda they may
>>> support) need to speak out before he destroys what’s left of decency in our
>>> country and our world.
>>>
>>> Thank you, Rick.
>>>
>>> Fredric Woocher
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 27, 2018, at 10:07 PM, "larrylevine at earthlink.net" <
>>> larrylevine at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> “All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good people to remain
>>> silent.”
>>>
>>> Thank you, Rick, for speaking out and speaking up. Yes, this is a law
>>> list, but to those who want to raise that as a shield behind which to
>>> condone the white supremacist and white nationalism that is given purchase
>>> by the bombastic rhetoric that flows from Trump, I ask if you truly believe
>>> that a “condemnation of violence” is satisfactory atonement for three years
>>> for promulgating violence. This presidency has been devoid of decency and
>>> built on divisiveness. All people of good conscience need to condemn not
>>> just the shooting in Pittsburgh, but also that which has so clearly created
>>> the atmosphere that has emboldened the worst elements of our society.
>>> Donald Trump sings the siren song that is so clear heard by white
>>> separatists and white nationalists that it is fair to ask whether he isn’t
>>> in fact of them. If you truly think unsubscribing from this list is a
>>> proper response to one who has the courage to speak out in the face of
>>> evil, then I for one will not miss you.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> *On
>>> Behalf Of *Ben Betz
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, 27 October 2018 9:19 PM
>>> *To:* jboppjr <jboppjr at aol.com>
>>> *Cc:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] ELB News and Commentary 10/27/18
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick - thank you for wading in here so unabashedly and sharing with this
>>> list. You no doubt were aware there’d be political blowback and decided to
>>> make a moral case, speak the truth, and speak out *for decency* anyway.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim Bopp, shame on you.
>>>
>>> Ben Betz
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (Sent from phone - please excuse typos.)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 27, 2018, at 9:46 PM, jboppjr <jboppjr at aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Rick, this is a disgusting low for you. Jim Bopp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note8, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>
>>> From: Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu>
>>>
>>> Date: 10/27/18 5:04 PM (GMT-05:00)
>>>
>>> To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
>>>
>>> Subject: [EL] ELB News and Commentary 10/27/18
>>>
>>>
>>> Domestic Terrorism, President Trump, and the 2018 U.S. Midterm Elections
>>> <https://electionlawblog.org/?p=101782>
>>>
>>> Posted on October 27, 2018 1:54 pm
>>> <https://electionlawblog.org/?p=101782> by *Rick Hasen*
>>> <https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>>> I am heartbroken for the victims of today’s domestic terrorist attack at
>>> the Tree of Life synagogue
>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/us/active-shooter-pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting.html> in
>>> Pittsburgh which has left 11 people dead. These people were praying and
>>> celebrating a recent birth with a bris. The killer apparently yelled “All
>>> Jews must die”
>>> <https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2018/10/27/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-suspect-identified/> as
>>> he opened fire.
>>> This comes just a few days after two African-American patrons of a
>>> Kroger store were senselessly killed in Louisville Kentucky in another
>>> racist domestic terrorist
>>> <https://www.wave3.com/2018/10/25/kroger-shooting-accused-killer-held-m-bond/> incident
>>> after the shooter could not get into a predominantly African-American
>>> Baptist church. The killer at one point explained that “whites don’t kill
>>> whites.”
>>> And of course these incidents come the same week as a man apparently
>>> obsessed with President Trump sent pipe bombs
>>> <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/technology/cesar-sayoc-facebook-twitter.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage> to
>>> those who have been frequent targets of the President’s inflammatory
>>> rhetoric, including former Presidents Obama and Clinton, Secretary Hillary
>>> Clinton, Sen. Kamala Harris, Rep. Maxine Waters, CNN, George Soros, and
>>> others. Fortunately, at least so far the bombs that have turned up in the
>>> mail have not exploded.
>>> Ordinarily, the acts of a deranged individual who commits political
>>> violence should not be attributed to the elected official they support or
>>> who inspires them. Think, for example, of the shooter of Rep Steve
>>> Scalise
>>> <https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/14/homepage2/james-hodgkinson-profile/index.html> at
>>> the congressional baseball game who was a Bernie Sanders supporter.
>>> But things with President Trump are different. He has refused to condemn
>>> anti-semitism and racism; he has encouraged chants of “lock her up” against
>>> his political opponent Hillary Clinton and against others; he has appeared
>>> with, and promoted the views of, those who blame George Soros and the Jews
>>> for immigration problems; he calls his political adversaries by demeaning
>>> names, especially African-American women opponents such as Rep. Waters. He
>>> has done these things even as this violence grows. He praised the body
>>> slamming of a journalist by Rep. Gianforte. He has shown no interest in
>>> bringing the nation together, suggesting that rather than “toning it down”
>>> he could “really tone it up.”
>>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i-could-really-tone-it-up-trump-shows-little-interest-in-uniting-the-nation-during-crises/2018/10/26/6a859c38-d891-11e8-a10f-b51546b10756_story.html?utm_term=.e506260dc49c>
>>> He has pursued a political strategy that is aimed at inflaming his base
>>> to try to win the election. He has even complained
>>> <https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/media-covering-bombs-halt-gop-momentum-midterms-trump-says> about
>>> how the pipe bombs could hurt Republican election momentum.
>>> And he has brought many Republicans along with him, such as Kevin
>>> McCarthy, soon to be leader of Republicans in the House of Representatives.
>>> McCarthy, in a now-deleted tweet,
>>> <https://twitter.com/JJohnsonLaw/status/1056243096369987584> accused
>>> “Soros, Steyer, and Bloomberg” of “trying to BUY this election.” Such
>>> anti-Semitic tropes have moved from the fringe right wing to the center of
>>> the Republican party.
>>>
>>> At the beginning of the Trump presidency, I had hopes that people like
>>> Speaker of the House Paul Ryan would have courage to speak out about these
>>> things, and actually take action to punish Trump for not strongly
>>> condemning the racism and violence Trump has encouraged. It hasn’t
>>> happened. There is the barest of hand-wringing by people like Senator Sasse
>>> and Senator Flake, and no consequences for Trump. Republicans in the Senate
>>> are fine to put up with the racism and inflammation toward violence if they
>>> get to pack the federal judiciary with conservative appointees.
>>>
>>> There is reason to believe that if Republicans lose the House, Trump
>>> will only turn up the rhetoric, perhaps attacking the legitimacy of the
>>> election results, and trying to rile up his base more in an effort to
>>> preserve his presidency and maximize his chances for reelection. As ugly as
>>> things have gotten, they stand to get uglier.
>>>
>>> It is time for people across the aisle to stand up to racism. So far
>>> people like Paul Ryan have been cowards. Maybe they will have more
>>> “courage” if it seems that Trump’s appeal to racism will cost the party its
>>> lock on power. But I would not have count on it. And in the meantime,
>>> increased political violence and domestic terrorism seems not only
>>> possible, but unfortunately likely.
>>>
>>> May the memory of this weeks’ victims be a blessing, and may their
>>> deaths not be in vain.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Share]
>>> <https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D101782&title=Domestic%20Terrorism%2C%20President%20Trump%2C%20and%20the%202018%20U.S.%20Midterm%20Elections>
>>>
>>> Posted in social media and social protests
>>> <https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=58>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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