[EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Richard Winger
richardwinger at yahoo.com
Mon Aug 17 12:48:32 PDT 2020
I don't understand Mark's question. I am a polling place official most elections and it is common for voters to enter the polling place and surrender their mail ballot because they would rather use a ballot we provide them and to vote at the polling place on the new ballot. So the surrendered mail ballot is placed into a sealed container. In San Francisco it is called the "red box". It is quite large because at the end of the day it contains lots of stuff. At the end of the day we empty the box in front of each other and count everything. But we certainly don't look at any ballot. It is possible to know who surrendered the ballot because it has the outer envelope with it. Polling place officials are under extreme pressure after closing hour (8 pm) to do all the remaining work. There is absolutely no motivation for any polling place official to look at any particular surrendered ballot. It wouldn't be interesting. The voter didn't use it, so it would be blank. There is time pressure to do all the work required after 8 pm, and before the deputy sheriff arrives to pick up the innards of the vote-counting machine.
The most stressful part of being an polling place official, in California anyway, is the voluminous work that must be done between 8 pm and, say, 9:30 pm.
Richard Winger 415-922-9779 PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147
On Monday, August 17, 2020, 12:41:40 PM PDT, Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com> wrote:
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If by “identify the voter,” you mean will it have the voter’s name on it, then the answer is “yes.” I can’t say that it is necessarily followed with 100% accuracy by every pollworker, but the surrendered ballot should be included with the VBM ballot envelope, which has the voter’s name and address printed on it. As to whether that’s the same person who is the one who is turning it in, it will at least be someone claiming to be the same person, since when you sign in to vote in person, you must give your name and address and sign the poll book. California, as you know, does not have photo i.d., however.
FDW
From: Mark Scarberry [mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:33 PM
To: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
Cc: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>; Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
For those of us who may be paranoid, will the surrendered by-mail ballot identify the voter, so that the poll workers will know that it is the ballot that was sent to that voter by mail? If not, then the possibility of voter fraud, small as it may in any event be, would be increased.
Mark
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Caruso School of Law
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Mark S. Scarberry
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Professor of Law
mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu
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Personal: mark.scarberry at gmail.com
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On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:27 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com> wrote:
My understanding is that even with electronic poll books an in-person voter still must surrender the by-mail ballot or vote provisionally. It’s just realistically impossible to track in real time what received ballots are in the process of being counted.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com> wrote:
Nate,
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don’t see how it could be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don’t see how that can be avoided in other counties.
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024
fwoocher at strumwooch.com
(310) 576-1233 x105
IMPORTANT NOTICE:Pursuant to the Governor’s “Stay at Home” Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered – do not serve papers by this method. While our office is closed,Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters. Please serve by electronic mail tofwoocher at strumwooch.com AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com. We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu]On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
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Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu
www.persily.com
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Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
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