[EL] Quick Question about provisional voting in California
Mary Hill
MHill at smcacre.org
Tue Aug 18 13:30:49 PDT 2020
Election Specialist in San Mateo County here,
The answer to whether or not you vote provisionally if you were issued at Vote by Mail ballot all depends on whether or not your county is a Voter’s Choice county. In our county (switched to Vote Center model in 2018), a voter does not need to surrender a ballot in order to vote regularly in person. Our ePollbook is synced to our home office’s database. So if Joe Voter turns in a VBM ballot, that ballot is scanned and counted on 10/31 and he comes into vote on 11/1, it will show that he has already voted. If he wishes to still vote, we’d issue a provisional ballot. If he votes in person on 10/31 and we receive his VBM ballot on 11/1, we will not count that ballot. First ballot in, first ballot counted. Our VBM team is processing, extracting, scanning, and adjudicating ballots through election day and night. We just don’t tally until 8pm on 11/3.
Many, many voters show up to Vote Centers to physically drop off their VBM Ballots at our ballot boxes/curbside drop boxes.
However, many voters, used to needing to surrender their ballots, still do so. We put them in the “Surrendered Bag” and it’s basically secure recycling. We don’t need surrendered ballots for any reconciliation. We just have to reconcile how many ballots are printed at a Vote Center to keep track of paper (VC counties only) I don’t know of any county that does anything with surrendered ballots other then put them in the shred pile. It doesn’t have any information that we need for anything.
I can’t tell you how the 40 counties that are not vote by mail only (3), or Vote Center Counties (15) are going to handle that issue of voting in person when a ballot was mailed to them. If they don’t decide to crash course into the Vote Center model (Not a wise choice in my opinion. Test driving a mobile ballot printer and some form of ePollbook/laptop connection to VoteCal for a contentious November Presidential General sounds like the worst idea. It was hard enough for us to transfer over during a midterm primary), they most likely will stop processing ballots when they print their roster books. From then until they receive their roster books they count sort all VBM ballots received into precincts and then cross check all VBM ballots to each Precinct’s roster (and Provisional ballots received for any voters who didn’t vote at their precinct) before continuing to process VBM ballots.
I am so happy we’re a Vote Center County. We have far fewer provisional ballots to process. (Don’t need to issue one for not surrendering a VBM ballot, or for not voting at their specific precinct location.)
---
Mary Hill [she/her]
Elections Specialist
• Office: (650) 655-6246 | 📱 Mobile: (650) 722-8100
[cid:image001.png at 01D67563.6B3202A0]
Registration & Elections Division
40 Tower Road, San Mateo 94402
http://www.smcacre.org/
From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> On Behalf Of law-election-request at department-lists.uci.edu
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Pamela S Karlan)
2. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(info at arizonaspolitics.com<mailto:info at arizonaspolitics.com>)
3. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Douglas Johnson)
4. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Mark Scarberry)
5. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(larrylevine at earthlink.net<mailto:larrylevine at earthlink.net>)
6. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Fredric Woocher)
7. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Fredric Woocher)
8. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Richard Winger)
9. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Laslavic, Kenneth)
10. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Douglas Johnson)
11. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Lisa Bryant)
12. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Levitt, Justin)
13. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Pedro Hernandez)
14. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California and
Oregon (Dan Meek)
15. ICYMI: National Task Force on Election Crises Issues Report
on Primary Elections and Implications for November?s General
Election (Ben Raderstorf)
16. Re: Quick question about provisional voting in California
(Douglas Johnson)
17. ELB News and Commentary 8/18/20 (Rick Hasen)
18. Tennessee Ratification Celebration (D. A. Holtzman)
19. 19th Amendment ratification video now on FB [Re: Tennessee
Ratification Celebration (D. A. Holtzman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:02:06 +0000
From: Pamela S Karlan <pkarlan at stanford.edu<mailto:pkarlan at stanford.edu>>
To: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>, Nate Persily
<npersily at law.stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at law.stanford.edu>>, Election Law Listserv
<law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
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Dear Fred and Nate,
If the primary is any indication, at my polling place, it seemed that most of us who were voting in person did hand in our VBM ballot.
It's interesting that the Secretary of State's website doesn't say anything about this.: https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote>
Pamela S. Karlan
Kenneth and Harle Montgomery Professor of Public Interest Law
Co-Director, Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
Stanford Law School
karlan at stanford.edu<mailto:karlan at stanford.edu>
650-725-4851
________________________________
From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>> on behalf of Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52 AM
To: Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at law.stanford.edu>>; Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Nate,
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see how that can be avoided in other counties.
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024
fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
(310) 576-1233 x105
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this method. While our office is closed, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters. Please serve by electronic mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>>. We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
----------------
Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu%3cmailto:npersily at stanford.edu>>
www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com/<http://www.persily.com>>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:06:57 -0700
From: <info at arizonaspolitics.com<mailto:info at arizonaspolitics.com>>
To: "Fredric Woocher" <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>, "Nate Persily"
<npersily at law.stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at law.stanford.edu>>, "Election Law Listserv"
<law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:28:25 -0700
From: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
To: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<CAEpM-E1+Pn0YRnZYWgWLHerY8exj+90fZkLtc1iEWLqoxqt9pw at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAEpM-E1+Pn0YRnZYWgWLHerY8exj+90fZkLtc1iEWLqoxqt9pw at mail.gmail.com>>
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My understanding is that even with electronic poll books an in-person voter
still must surrender the by-mail ballot or vote provisionally. It?s just
realistically impossible to track in real time what received ballots are
in the process of being counted.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
wrote:
> Nate,
>
>
>
> I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the
> unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those
> counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no
> other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already
> been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
>
>
>
> I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling
> books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what
> means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see
> how that can be avoided in other counties.
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
>
>
> And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for
> invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their
> provisional ballots in every election.
>
>
>
> Fredric D. Woocher
>
> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>
> 10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> Los Angeles, CA 90024
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
>
> (310) 576-1233 x105
>
>
>
> *IMPORTANT NOTICE**:* Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order,
> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. *Packages requiring
> signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this
> method.* While our office is closed, *Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents
> to electronic service in all of its matters*. Please serve by electronic
> mail to *fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:*fwoocher at strumwooch.com> <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>* AND to our
> Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>. We
> reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not
> actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu]
> *On Behalf Of *Nate Persily
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
> *To:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
> *Subject:* [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in
> California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is,
> given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will
> those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional
> ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> ----------------
>
> Nate Persily
>
> James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
> Stanford Law School
> 559 Nathan Abbott Way
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> Stanford, CA 94305-8610
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> (917) 570-3223
> npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu>
>
> www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>
phone 310-200-2058
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:32:39 -0700
From: Mark Scarberry <mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu>>
To: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<CAGN5XUw_-c5Y5BH3a15e=xwtcQWXaBvSs+qSNVtMcm9CWpC4Bg at mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAGN5XUw_-c5Y5BH3a15e=xwtcQWXaBvSs+qSNVtMcm9CWpC4Bg at mail.gmail.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
For those of us who may be paranoid, will the surrendered by-mail ballot
identify the voter, so that the poll workers will know that it is the
ballot that was sent to that voter by mail? If not, then the possibility of
voter fraud, small as it may in any event be, would be increased.
Mark
[image: Pepperdine wordmark]*Caruso School of Law*
*Mark S. Scarberry*
*Professor of Lawmark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:Lawmark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu>
<mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu>>*
Personal: mark.scarberry at gmail.com<mailto:mark.scarberry at gmail.com>
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:27 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
wrote:
> My understanding is that even with electronic poll books an in-person
> voter still must surrender the by-mail ballot or vote provisionally. It?s
> just realistically impossible to track in real time what received ballots
> are in the process of being counted.
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
> wrote:
>
>> Nate,
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the
>> unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those
>> counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no
>> other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already
>> been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling
>> books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what
>> means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see
>> how that can be avoided in other counties.
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>>
>>
>> And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for
>> invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their
>> provisional ballots in every election.
>>
>>
>>
>> Fredric D. Woocher
>>
>> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>>
>> 10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>> Los Angeles, CA 90024
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>> fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
>>
>> (310) 576-1233 x105
>>
>>
>>
>> *IMPORTANT NOTICE**:* Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order,
>> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. *Packages requiring
>> signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this
>> method.* While our office is closed, *Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>> consents to electronic service in all of its matters*. Please serve by
>> electronic mail to *fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:*fwoocher at strumwooch.com> <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>*
>> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at
>> loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>. We reserve the right to object to any notice or
>> delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all
>> statutory deadlines.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Law-election [mailto:
>> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Nate
>> Persily
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
>> *To:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
>> *Subject:* [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in
>> California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is,
>> given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will
>> those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional
>> ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>> ----------------
>>
>> Nate Persily
>>
>> James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
>> Stanford Law School
>> 559 Nathan Abbott Way
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>> Stanford, CA 94305-8610
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>> (917) 570-3223
>> npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu>
>>
>> www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Law-election mailing list
>> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
>> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
> --
> Douglas Johnson
> National Demographics Corporation
> djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>
> phone 310-200-2058
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 12:38:03 -0700
From: <larrylevine at earthlink.net<mailto:larrylevine at earthlink.net>>
To: "'Douglas Johnson'" <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>, "'Fredric
Woocher'" <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Cc: 'Election Law Listserv' <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID: <000701d674cd$ecd9e930$c68dbb90$@earthlink.net<mailto:000701d674cd$ecd9e930$c68dbb90$@earthlink.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Or might be received after election day.
Larry
From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>> On Behalf Of Douglas Johnson
Sent: Monday, 17 August 2020 12:28 PM
To: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
My understanding is that even with electronic poll books an in-person voter still must surrender the by-mail ballot or vote provisionally. It?s just realistically impossible to track in real time what received ballots are in the process of being counted.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com <mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%20%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>> > wrote:
Nate,
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see how that can be avoided in other counties.
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Los Angeles, CA 90024 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com> <mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
(310) 576-1233 x105
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this method. While our office is closed, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters. Please serve by electronic mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com> <mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com> <mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com> . We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu%20%3cmailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu%3e%20> ] On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu <mailto:law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu%20%3cmailto:law-election at uci.edu>> >
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
----------------
Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Stanford, CA 94305-8610 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu> <mailto:npersily at stanford.edu>
<http://www.persily.com/<http://www.persily.com/>> www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com>
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu> <mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>
phone 310-200-2058
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:40:41 +0000
From: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
To: Mark Scarberry <mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu>>, Douglas Johnson
<djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<015b01985ff040209656e872895e355c at SNAEXDAGB04.exp001.local<mailto:015b01985ff040209656e872895e355c at SNAEXDAGB04.exp001.local>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
If by ?identify the voter,? you mean will it have the voter?s name on it, then the answer is ?yes.? I can?t say that it is necessarily followed with 100% accuracy by every pollworker, but the surrendered ballot should be included with the VBM ballot envelope, which has the voter?s name and address printed on it. As to whether that?s the same person who is the one who is turning it in, it will at least be someone claiming to be the same person, since when you sign in to vote in person, you must give your name and address and sign the poll book. California, as you know, does not have photo i.d., however.
FDW
From: Mark Scarberry [mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:33 PM
To: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
Cc: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>; Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
For those of us who may be paranoid, will the surrendered by-mail ballot identify the voter, so that the poll workers will know that it is the ballot that was sent to that voter by mail? If not, then the possibility of voter fraud, small as it may in any event be, would be increased.
Mark
[Pepperdine wordmark]
Caruso School of Law
Mark S. Scarberry
Professor of Law
mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu%3cmailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu>>
Personal: mark.scarberry at gmail.com<mailto:mark.scarberry at gmail.com<mailto:mark.scarberry at gmail.com%3cmailto:mark.scarberry at gmail.com>>
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:27 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com%3cmailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>> wrote:
My understanding is that even with electronic poll books an in-person voter still must surrender the by-mail ballot or vote provisionally. It?s just realistically impossible to track in real time what received ballots are in the process of being counted.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>> wrote:
Nate,
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see how that can be avoided in other counties.
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Los Angeles, CA 90024<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
(310) 576-1233 x105
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this method. While our office is closed, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters. Please serve by electronic mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>>. We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu><mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu%3cmailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu%3e>] On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu%3cmailto:law-election at uci.edu>>>
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
----------------
Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Stanford, CA 94305-8610<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu%3cmailto:npersily at stanford.edu>>
www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com/<http://www.persily.com/>>
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu%3cmailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>>
https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com%3cmailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>>
phone 310-200-2058
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu%3cmailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>>
https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:44:00 +0000
From: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
To: "larrylevine at earthlink.net<mailto:larrylevine at earthlink.net>" <larrylevine at earthlink.net<mailto:larrylevine at earthlink.net>>, "'Douglas
Johnson'" <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
Cc: 'Election Law Listserv' <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<da03f547a62f4d36b9e520287c2cbadf at SNAEXDAGB04.exp001.local<mailto:da03f547a62f4d36b9e520287c2cbadf at SNAEXDAGB04.exp001.local>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Well, the registrars usually stop processing mailed-in VBMs a couple of days before the election, and then when they re-start processing them, no VBM is counted until the names of voters who voted in person at the polls is recorded in the central computer system. So, at that point, the VBM would not be counted if someone voted in person.
Which is one reason why it takes so long for VBMs to be counted following the election, and everyone will need to be very patient.
FDW
From: larrylevine at earthlink.net<mailto:larrylevine at earthlink.net> [mailto:larrylevine at earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:38 PM
To: 'Douglas Johnson' <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>; Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Cc: 'Election Law Listserv' <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: RE: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Or might be received after election day.
Larry
From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu%3cmailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>>> On Behalf Of Douglas Johnson
Sent: Monday, 17 August 2020 12:28 PM
To: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu%3cmailto:law-election at uci.edu>>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
My understanding is that even with electronic poll books an in-person voter still must surrender the by-mail ballot or vote provisionally. It?s just realistically impossible to track in real time what received ballots are in the process of being counted.
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>> wrote:
Nate,
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see how that can be avoided in other counties.
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Los Angeles, CA 90024<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
(310) 576-1233 x105
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this method. While our office is closed, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters. Please serve by electronic mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com%3cmailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>>. We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu><mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu%3cmailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu%3e>] On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu%3cmailto:law-election at uci.edu>>>
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
----------------
Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Stanford, CA 94305-8610<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu%3cmailto:npersily at stanford.edu>>
www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com/<http://www.persily.com/>>
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu%3cmailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>>
https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com%3cmailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>>
phone 310-200-2058
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:48:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: Richard Winger <richardwinger at yahoo.com<mailto:richardwinger at yahoo.com>>
To: Mark Scarberry <mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu>>, Douglas Johnson
<djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>, Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID: <176458580.2731228.1597693712047 at mail.yahoo.com<mailto:176458580.2731228.1597693712047 at mail.yahoo.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I don't understand Mark's question.? I am a polling place official most elections and it is common for voters to enter the polling place and surrender their mail ballot because they would rather use a ballot we provide them and to vote at the polling place on the new ballot.? So the surrendered mail ballot is placed into a sealed container.? In San Francisco it is called the "red box".? It is quite large because at the end of the day it contains lots of stuff.? At the end of the day we empty the box in front of each other and count everything.? But we certainly don't look at any ballot.? It is possible to know who surrendered the ballot because it has the outer envelope with it.? Polling place officials are under extreme pressure after closing hour (8 pm) to do all the remaining work.? There is absolutely no motivation for any polling place official to look at any particular surrendered ballot.? It wouldn't be interesting.? The voter didn't use it, so it would be blank.? There is tim
e pressure to do all the work required after 8 pm, and before the deputy sheriff arrives to pick up the innards of the vote-counting machine.
The most stressful part of being an polling place official, in California anyway, is the voluminous work that must be done between 8 pm and, say, 9:30 pm.
Richard Winger 415-922-9779 PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147
On Monday, August 17, 2020, 12:41:40 PM PDT, Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>> wrote:
#yiv3520005903 #yiv3520005903 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv3520005903 #yiv3520005903 p.yiv3520005903MsoNormal, #yiv3520005903 li.yiv3520005903MsoNormal, #yiv3520005903 div.yiv3520005903MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv3520005903 a:link, #yiv3520005903 span.yiv3520005903MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3520005903 a:visited, #yiv3520005903 span.yiv3520005903MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3520005903 p {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv3520005903 span.yiv3520005903EmailStyle19 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv3520005903 .yiv3520005903MsoChpDefault {font-family:sans-serif;} _filtered {}#yiv3520005903 div.yiv3520005903WordSection1 {}#yiv3520005903
If by ?identify the voter,? you mean will it have the voter?s name on it, then the answer is ?yes.?? I can?t say that it is necessarily followed with 100% accuracy by every pollworker, but the surrendered ballot should be included with the VBM ballot envelope, which has the voter?s name and address printed on it.? As to whether that?s the same person who is the one who is turning it in, it will at least be someone claiming to be the same person, since when you sign in to vote in person, you must give your name and address and sign the poll book.? California, as you know, does not have photo i.d., however.
?
FDW
?
From: Mark Scarberry [mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:33 PM
To: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
Cc: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>; Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
?
For those of us who may be paranoid, will? the surrendered by-mail ballot identify the voter, so that the poll workers will know that it is the ballot that was sent to that voter by mail? If not, then the possibility of voter fraud, small as it may in any event be, would be increased.
?
Mark
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Caruso?School?of Law
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Mark S. Scarberry
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Professor of Law
mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu<mailto:mark.scarberry at pepperdine.edu>
|
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Personal: mark.scarberry at gmail.com<mailto:mark.scarberry at gmail.com>
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?
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:27 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>> wrote:
My understanding is that even with electronic poll books an in-person voter still must surrender the by-mail ballot or vote provisionally. It?s just realistically impossible to track in real ?time what received ballots are in the process of being counted.
?
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:53 AM Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>> wrote:
Nate,
?
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise.? For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
?
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see how that can be avoided in other counties.
?
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
?
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024
fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
(310) 576-1233 x105
?
IMPORTANT NOTICE:Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC.?Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this method.? While our office is closed,Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters.? Please serve by electronic mail tofwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:tofwoocher at strumwooch.com> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>.? We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
?
?
?
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu]On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
?
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot?? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
----------------
Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu>
www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com>
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>
phone 310-200-2058
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:15:08 +0000
From: "Laslavic, Kenneth" <Kenneth.Laslavic at ucsf.edu<mailto:Kenneth.Laslavic at ucsf.edu>>
To: "info at arizonaspolitics.com<mailto:info at arizonaspolitics.com>" <info at arizonaspolitics.com<mailto:info at arizonaspolitics.com>>, Fredric
Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>, Nate Persily
<npersily at law.stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at law.stanford.edu>>, Election Law Listserv
<law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<BYAPR05MB485593D02E17D73730F12269F55F0 at BYAPR05MB4855.namprd05.prod.outlook.com<mailto:BYAPR05MB485593D02E17D73730F12269F55F0 at BYAPR05MB4855.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
In California a vote-by-mail voter who appears in person will be provided a provisional ballot.
The fact that California will send a ballot to all registered voters for this election does not really present a new issue in terms of vote-by-mail voters who appear in person as such circumstances have existed in prior elections in California.
The Secretary of State website provides:
Vote-by-mail voters who appear in person. In this instance, the voter's name is on the polling place roster and the roster notes the voter requested a vote-by-mail ballot. However, the voter states they didn't receive the ballot, lost the ballot, or spoiled the ballot and doesn't have it with them. After the voter casts a provisional ballot, the elections official will check the records to ensure that the voter did not cast their vote-by-mail ballot. If this is the case and the voter's signature on the provisional ballot envelope matches the signature on the voter's registration card, then the voter's provisional ballot will be counted. (Elections Code sections 3016, 14310(f), 15350, 15100 et seq.) If the voter did vote and return their vote-by-mail ballot before the close of polls on Election Day, then the vote-by-mail ballot will be counted and the provisional ballot will not be counted. If the voter did vote and return their vote-by-mail ballot but failed to sign the vote-by-mail
ballot envelope, then the voter's provisional ballot will be counted, provided they complied with the instructions associated with the provisional ballot.
Kenneth Laslavic
kenneth.laslavic at ucsf.edu<mailto:kenneth.laslavic at ucsf.edu>
<https://twitter.com/UCSFSenate<https://twitter.com/UCSFSenate>>
________________________________
From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on behalf of info at arizonaspolitics.com <info at arizonaspolitics.com>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:06 PM
To: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>; Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu>; Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
What Fredric said.
Here in Arizona, more than 3/4 of the voters will receive an early ballot. In Maricopa County, the pollbooks in the Vote Centers will have info on the early ballots processed up to the day before. If the early ballot had not been processed, they will be able to vote a regular, non-provisional. (Then, if the early ballot is received on E-day, it will not be counted because of the E-day ballot.) And, If it was received, the voter could still vote a provisional ballot, but only one will be counted. Other Arizona counties do not have that capability and the
I would guess some California counties will also have the same set-up that Maricopa County does.
--Paul
______________________
Paul Weich, co-founder
www.ArizonasPolitics.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ArizonasPolitics.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=iORugZls2LlYyCAZRB3XLg&r=RTWNhEP0ienw7K7GnmxPb8E2yZw-s2JXHRsd3koU7Gw&m=srAZ__JiZvIGtbfWGaAwMIaV7A0VQeEFjSBJeI2Khgk&s=418FW9rezzSpczXcdXTiycQIm8Hu4XuIXgYpYiuquvI&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ArizonasPolitics.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=iORugZls2LlYyCAZRB3XLg&r=RTWNhEP0ienw7K7GnmxPb8E2yZw-s2JXHRsd3koU7Gw&m=srAZ__JiZvIGtbfWGaAwMIaV7A0VQeEFjSBJeI2Khgk&s=418FW9rezzSpczXcdXTiycQIm8Hu4XuIXgYpYiuquvI&e=>>
New: www.ArizonasLaw.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ArizonasLaw.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=iORugZls2LlYyCAZRB3XLg&r=RTWNhEP0ienw7K7GnmxPb8E2yZw-s2JXHRsd3koU7Gw&m=srAZ__JiZvIGtbfWGaAwMIaV7A0VQeEFjSBJeI2Khgk&s=DYuT_kTDmNUiAcvzW0dZRpscm1gsr8o5NK16ZJgEdvU&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ArizonasLaw.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=iORugZls2LlYyCAZRB3XLg&r=RTWNhEP0ienw7K7GnmxPb8E2yZw-s2JXHRsd3koU7Gw&m=srAZ__JiZvIGtbfWGaAwMIaV7A0VQeEFjSBJeI2Khgk&s=DYuT_kTDmNUiAcvzW0dZRpscm1gsr8o5NK16ZJgEdvU&e=>>
602-908-9132
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
From: Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Date: Mon, August 17, 2020 11:52 am
To: Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at law.stanford.edu>>, Election Law Listserv
<law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Nate,
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see how that can be avoided in other counties.
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024
fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
(310) 576-1233 x105
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this method. While our office is closed, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters. Please serve by electronic mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>. We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
----------------
Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu>
www.persily.com<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.persily.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=iORugZls2LlYyCAZRB3XLg&r=RTWNhEP0ienw7K7GnmxPb8E2yZw-s2JXHRsd3koU7Gw&m=srAZ__JiZvIGtbfWGaAwMIaV7A0VQeEFjSBJeI2Khgk&s=SXfcCHig1h7E90Aw7H3c5UdzeeOjEDd8LULhrWr3MMA&e=<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.persily.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=iORugZls2LlYyCAZRB3XLg&r=RTWNhEP0ienw7K7GnmxPb8E2yZw-s2JXHRsd3koU7Gw&m=srAZ__JiZvIGtbfWGaAwMIaV7A0VQeEFjSBJeI2Khgk&s=SXfcCHig1h7E90Aw7H3c5UdzeeOjEDd8LULhrWr3MMA&e=>>
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:28:47 -0700
From: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
To: Pamela S Karlan <pkarlan at stanford.edu>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<CAEpM-E3-1UGZ0ZGg5EMNEyE8vCmeX3e=uH5Sw6_zccsdr9kCPQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
But that primary was an election where in most counties you actively
requested a ballot (either for that election or as a permanent absentee).
This November election millions will get mail ballots they never requested
- will they know to bring them with them to surrender?
Eric McGhee or Thad Kousser (or anyone from that team), has your research
with the early ?Vote Center? counties shown any indications of how much
this is an issue?
- Doug
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:04 PM Pamela S Karlan <pkarlan at stanford.edu>
wrote:
> Dear Fred and Nate,
>
> If the primary is any indication, at my polling place, it seemed that most
> of us who were voting in person *did* hand in our VBM ballot.
>
> It's interesting that the Secretary of State's website doesn't say
> anything about this.:
> https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/>
>
> Pamela S. Karlan
>
> Kenneth and Harle Montgomery Professor of Public Interest Law
>
> Co-Director, Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
>
> Stanford Law School
>
> karlan at stanford.edu
>
> 650-725-4851
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on
> behalf of Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52 AM
> *To:* Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu>; Election Law Listserv <
> law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>
>
> Nate,
>
>
>
> I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the
> unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those
> counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no
> other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already
> been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
>
>
>
> I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling
> books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what
> means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see
> how that can be avoided in other counties.
>
>
>
> And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for
> invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their
> provisional ballots in every election.
>
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>Fredric
> D. Woocher
>
> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>
> 10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> Los Angeles, CA 90024
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> fwoocher at strumwooch.com
>
> (310) 576-1233 x105
>
>
>
> *IMPORTANT NOTICE**:* Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order,
> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. *Packages requiring
> signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this
> method.* While our office is closed, *Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents
> to electronic service in all of its matters*. Please serve by electronic
> mail to *fwoocher at strumwooch.com <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>* AND to our
> Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com. We
> reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not
> actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu]
> *On Behalf Of *Nate Persily
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
> *To:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject:* [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in
> California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is,
> given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will
> those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional
> ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
>
> ----------------
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> Nate Persily
>
> James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
> Stanford Law School
> 559 Nathan Abbott Way
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> Stanford, CA 94305-8610
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> (917) 570-3223
> npersily at stanford.edu
>
> www.persily.com
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com
phone 310-200-2058
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 13:44:56 -0700
From: Lisa Bryant <lbryant at csufresno.edu>
To: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<CALSuSFNfmbbkSOxgxkDVkLtjTQopkmk6ORZTkBipB1O0vmZyOg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Yes, "most counties" did not receive ballots automatically, but about 50%
of CA voters lived in a VCA county where they automatically received a
ballot in the mail for the primary election this year. In those counties,
if they didn't take their ballot to the vote center with them the vote
center printed a new ballot and voided the mailed ballot. They did not have
to vote provisionally.
Even prior to VCA, over 60% of registered voters in CA were registered for
permanent absentee ballots, as high as 75% in some counties. CA also has a
couple of counties that are were exclusively VBM prior to VCA due to small
populations and their rural nature. CA, as a whole, is pretty familiar
with VBM and absentee ballots.
Best,
Lisa
Lisa Bryant, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science
Survey Director, Institute for Leadership and Public Policy
California State University, Fresno
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 1:28 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
wrote:
> But that primary was an election where in most counties you actively
> requested a ballot (either for that election or as a permanent absentee).
> This November election millions will get mail ballots they never requested
> - will they know to bring them with them to surrender?
>
> Eric McGhee or Thad Kousser (or anyone from that team), has your research
> with the early ?Vote Center? counties shown any indications of how much
> this is an issue?
>
> - Doug
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:04 PM Pamela S Karlan <pkarlan at stanford.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Fred and Nate,
>>
>> If the primary is any indication, at my polling place, it seemed that
>> most of us who were voting in person *did* hand in our VBM ballot.
>>
>> It's interesting that the Secretary of State's website doesn't say
>> anything about this.:
>> https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/>
>>
>> Pamela S. Karlan
>>
>> Kenneth and Harle Montgomery Professor of Public Interest Law
>>
>> Co-Director, Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
>>
>> Stanford Law School
>>
>> karlan at stanford.edu
>>
>> 650-725-4851
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on
>> behalf of Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52 AM
>> *To:* Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu>; Election Law Listserv <
>> law-election at uci.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>>
>>
>> Nate,
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the
>> unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those
>> counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no
>> other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already
>> been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling
>> books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what
>> means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see
>> how that can be avoided in other counties.
>>
>>
>>
>> And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for
>> invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their
>> provisional ballots in every election.
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>Fredric
>> D. Woocher
>>
>> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>>
>> 10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>> Los Angeles, CA 90024
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>> fwoocher at strumwooch.com
>>
>> (310) 576-1233 x105
>>
>>
>>
>> *IMPORTANT NOTICE**:* Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order,
>> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. *Packages requiring
>> signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this
>> method.* While our office is closed, *Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>> consents to electronic service in all of its matters*. Please serve by
>> electronic mail to *fwoocher at strumwooch.com <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>*
>> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at
>> loliver at strumwooch.com. We reserve the right to object to any notice or
>> delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all
>> statutory deadlines.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Law-election [mailto:
>> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *Nate
>> Persily
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
>> *To:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
>> *Subject:* [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>>
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in
>> California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is,
>> given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will
>> those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional
>> ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
>>
>> ----------------
>>
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>
>> Nate Persily
>>
>> James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
>> Stanford Law School
>> 559 Nathan Abbott Way
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>> Stanford, CA 94305-8610
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>> (917) 570-3223
>> npersily at stanford.edu
>>
>> www.persily.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Law-election mailing list
>> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
> --
> Douglas Johnson
> National Demographics Corporation
> djohnson at NDCresearch.com
> phone 310-200-2058
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 21:32:02 +0000
From: "Levitt, Justin" <justin.levitt at lls.edu>
To: Lisa Bryant <lbryant at csufresno.edu>, Douglas Johnson
<djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<BYAPR03MB472644A015526525E1E893D7F45F0 at BYAPR03MB4726.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks, Lisa, for the clarification.
For those following the bouncing balls, I believe this means that voters in California counties with vote centers, as long as the e-pollbooks at those vote centers are working, those voting in person will usually get a "regular" ballot. The only time those voters get a provisional is if they're not on the rolls, or if records show they have actually returned a mail ballot already. (If a mail ballot arrives at the county after a voter has already voted the regular ballot in person, the mail ballot will not count.)
And for those voting in counties with traditional polling places, I believe those voting in person can get a regular ballot by surrendering their mail ballot. Those who do not surrender their mail ballot will vote a provisional.
Given how many voters live in VCA counties, as Lisa says, I think that means the answer to Nate's question is that most California voters who choose to vote in person will not be casting provisional ballots.
And given the confusion (and the natural desire to facilitate information about "how it works in California" based on personal experience in one county), that speaks to the immense importance of communication to voters<https://redistricting.lls.edu/other/Levitt USCCR testimony 20200708.pdf#page=16<https://redistricting.lls.edu/other/Levitt USCCR testimony 20200708.pdf#page=16>> about how the process works for them - not just in California, but everywhere. That's best done locally by county administrators, who can speak to voters in their county without the all of the different combinations state officials may have to account for. And that brings me back to the familiar issue on this listserv of needing to make sure that the counties get the funding they've been begging for, to make that communication possible.
Justin
From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> On Behalf Of Lisa Bryant
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM
To: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Yes, "most counties" did not receive ballots automatically, but about 50% of CA voters lived in a VCA county where they automatically received a ballot in the mail for the primary election this year. In those counties, if they didn't take their ballot to the vote center with them the vote center printed a new ballot and voided the mailed ballot. They did not have to vote provisionally.
Even prior to VCA, over 60% of registered voters in CA were registered for permanent absentee ballots, as high as 75% in some counties. CA also has a couple of counties that are were exclusively VBM prior to VCA due to small populations and their rural nature. CA, as a whole, is pretty familiar with VBM and absentee ballots.
Best,
Lisa
Lisa Bryant, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Department of Political Science
Survey Director, Institute for Leadership and Public Policy
California State University, Fresno
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 1:28 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>> wrote:
But that primary was an election where in most counties you actively requested a ballot (either for that election or as a permanent absentee). This November election millions will get mail ballots they never requested - will they know to bring them with them to surrender?
Eric McGhee or Thad Kousser (or anyone from that team), has your research with the early "Vote Center" counties shown any indications of how much this is an issue?
- Doug
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:04 PM Pamela S Karlan <pkarlan at stanford.edu<mailto:pkarlan at stanford.edu>> wrote:
Dear Fred and Nate,
If the primary is any indication, at my polling place, it seemed that most of us who were voting in person did hand in our VBM ballot.
It's interesting that the Secretary of State's website doesn't say anything about this.: https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/>
Pamela S. Karlan
Kenneth and Harle Montgomery Professor of Public Interest Law
Co-Director, Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
Stanford Law School
karlan at stanford.edu<mailto:karlan at stanford.edu>
650-725-4851
________________________________
From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>> on behalf of Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52 AM
To: Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at law.stanford.edu>>; Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Nate,
I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don't see how it could be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don't see how that can be avoided in other counties.
And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every election.
Fredric D. Woocher
Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Los Angeles, CA 90024<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
(310) 576-1233 x105
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Pursuant to the Governor's "Stay at Home" Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. Packages requiring signatures will be returned undelivered - do not serve papers by this method. While our office is closed, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents to electronic service in all of its matters. Please serve by electronic mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com<mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com<mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>. We reserve the right to object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
From: Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] On Behalf Of Nate Persily
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
Subject: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is, given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
----------------
Nate Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
Stanford Law School
559 Nathan Abbott Way<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
Stanford, CA 94305-8610<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
(917) 570-3223
npersily at stanford.edu<mailto:npersily at stanford.edu>
www.persily.com<http://www.persily.com/<http://www.persily.com/>>
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com<mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>
phone 310-200-2058
_______________________________________________
Law-election mailing list
Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
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------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 15:03:34 -0700
From: Pedro Hernandez <pedro at fairvote.org>
To: "Levitt, Justin" <justin.levitt at lls.edu>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<CAKrhzZ9vjZcBBhnJ1EgMARBWgM7gXHAXsSULG2+r_ny1qSyLyQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
To add to what Justin and Lisa have said ...
In June, post governor's executive order, the CA SoS has provided some
guidance non-VCA/VCA counties:
https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/ccrov/pdf/2020/june/20135jl.pdf<https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/ccrov/pdf/2020/june/20135jl.pdf> (see page
2, Voting Opportunities, In-Person voting opportunities) -- non-VCA
counties are to provide at least one polling place (it then clarifies that
it means a Vote Center) per 10k registered voters.
There are a lot of reasons why a person might want to vote in person
instead of VBM, which they are allowed to do. A voter might have made a
mistake on their ballot, so they might want to surrender their ballot and
vote in person if there isn't enough time to have a new ballot mailed to
them. Remember, HAVA requires machines to notify voters of an overvote
<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/help-america-vote-act/hava-state-plan-2003/section-1/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/help-america-vote-act/hava-state-plan-2003/section-1>>
.... envelopes can't do that -- so my advice has been that voters should
make a plan, and double check their ballots for errors. In my limited study
of SF elections, most overvotes during our odd-year election occurred via
VBM ballots.
I haven't seen any language that modifies ? 3015
<https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=ELEC&division=3.&title=&part=&chapter=1.&article=<https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=ELEC&division=3.&title=&part=&chapter=1.&article=>>
(a
VBM voter can cast a nonprovisional ballot if they surrender their VBM
ballot, and there are a few more exceptions listed in 3015 and explained
below in the SoS poll worker training standards
<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three>>
.
Hope that's helpful.
- Pedro
--------------
from
https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three/>
Vote-by-Mail Voting
- Vote-by-mail voters have three options if they decide not to mail
their ballots in. They can:
1. 1. Turn in the voted vote-by-mail ballot in person to the office
of the elections official, any polling place in the state, a
vote center, a
vote-by-mail drop-off location, or a drop box on or before 8:00 p.m. on
election day. (?? 2300(a)(7), 3020, 14212);
2. 2. Appear at their designated polling place on Election Day, or
appear at a vote center or the regular or satellite office of their
elections official and,
- ? Vote a nonprovisional ballot if either of the following
conditions is satisfied (? 3015):
- (a) The voter surrenders their vote-by-mail ballot, or
- (b) The voter is unable to surrender their vote-by-mail
ballot, but the precinct board, vote center election
board, or elections
official does all of the following:
- (i)Verifies that the voter has not returned his or her
voted vote-by-mail ballot, and
- (ii)Notates the voter?s voter record to ensure that the
voter?s vote-by-mail ballot is not cast or tabulated
after they vote at the
polls.
- ? Vote a provisional ballot if (?? 3016, 14310(f)):
- (a) The voter is unable to surrender their vote-by-mail
ballot and
- (b) The precinct board, vote center election board, or
elections official cannot:
- (i) Verify if the voter has returned their voted
vote-by-mail ballot, and
- (i) Verify if the voter has returned their voted
vote-by-mail ballot, and
- -OR-
- (iii) The voter is unable to surrender their vote-by-mail
ballot and the precinct board or elections official (in
a non-VCA county)
cannot readily determine if the voter is in the correct
polling location.
- It is not uncommon for a voter to receive a vote-by-mail
ballot in the mail, then either forget to mail it back before Election Day
or decide to hand-deliver it to the polls. Poll workers must be informed
they must accept any vote-by- mail ballot issued to any voter in the state,
either from the voter or from a designated third party delivering it for
the voter. County elections officials will sort those vote by mail ballots
into the proper precinct or forward them to the appropriate California
county election official. Designated third parties are any person who is
not compensated based on the number of ballots returned if the voter
requested and received their ballot under late vote-by-mail conditions (7
or fewer days before Election Day), the voter can authorize any person to
return the ballot for them. (?? 3017, 3021)
- Sometimes voters change their minds and want to vote at the polls
instead of by mail. Poll workers should be taught how to handle surrendered
vote-by-mail ballots brought in by these voters. Poll workers should be
trained how to record and handle voted and surrendered vote-by-mail ballots
(surrendered vote-by-mail ballot will not be counted), where to store them,
and how they should be handled after the polls close. (?? 3015, 3017)
- In the event a vote-by-mail voter does not sign his or her
vote-by-mail envelope, the voter may fill out and timely return an
?Unsigned Ballot Envelope Statement? to the elections official, which
includes a polling place and a ballot dropoff box. The elections officials
should provide ?Unsigned Ballot Envelope Statement? forms at all polling
places for use by voters. (? 3019)
- When processing voted vote-by-mail ballots, elections officials are
required to compare the signature on the return envelope against the
signature(s) of the voter in the voter?s record. If the signatures do not
match, the elections officials must notify the voter, who may submit a
?Signature Verification Statement? to verify (cure) his or her signature
before certification of the election. The ?Signature Verification
Statement? must be timely returned to the elections official, which
includes a polling place and a ballot dropoff box. The elections official
should provide ?Signature Verification Statement? forms at all polling
places for use by voters. (? 3019)
Pedro Hernandez
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Senior Policy Coordinator, Voting Rights & Ranked Choice Voting
http://fairvote.org<http://fairvote.org>
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:32 PM Levitt, Justin <justin.levitt at lls.edu>
wrote:
> Thanks, Lisa, for the clarification.
>
>
>
> For those following the bouncing balls, I *believe* this means that
> voters in California counties with vote centers, as long as the e-pollbooks
> at those vote centers are working, those voting in person will usually get
> a ?regular? ballot. The only time those voters get a provisional is if
> they?re not on the rolls, or if records show they have actually returned a
> mail ballot already. (If a mail ballot arrives at the county after a voter
> has already voted the regular ballot in person, the mail ballot will not
> count.)
>
>
>
> And for those voting in counties with traditional polling places, I
> believe those voting in person can get a regular ballot by surrendering
> their mail ballot. Those who do not surrender their mail ballot will vote
> a provisional.
>
>
>
> Given how many voters live in VCA counties, as Lisa says, I think that
> means the answer to Nate?s question is that most California voters who
> choose to vote in person will not be casting provisional ballots.
>
>
>
> And given the confusion (and the natural desire to facilitate information
> about ?how it works in California? based on personal experience in one
> county), that speaks to the immense importance of communication to voters
> <https://redistricting.lls.edu/other/Levitt USCCR testimony 20200708.pdf#page=16<https://redistricting.lls.edu/other/Levitt USCCR testimony 20200708.pdf#page=16>>
> about how the process works for them ? not just in California, but
> everywhere. That?s best done locally by county administrators, who can
> speak to voters in their county without the all of the different
> combinations state officials may have to account for. And *that* brings
> me back to the familiar issue on this listserv of needing to make sure that
> the counties get the funding they?ve been begging for, to make that
> communication possible.
>
>
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *Lisa Bryant
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM
> *To:* Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
> *Cc:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>
>
>
> Yes, "most counties" did not receive ballots automatically, but about 50%
> of CA voters lived in a VCA county where they automatically received a
> ballot in the mail for the primary election this year. In those counties,
> if they didn't take their ballot to the vote center with them the vote
> center printed a new ballot and voided the mailed ballot. They did not have
> to vote provisionally.
>
>
>
> Even prior to VCA, over 60% of registered voters in CA were registered for
> permanent absentee ballots, as high as 75% in some counties. CA also has a
> couple of counties that are were exclusively VBM prior to VCA due to small
> populations and their rural nature. CA, as a whole, is pretty familiar
> with VBM and absentee ballots.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
>
>
> Lisa Bryant, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Professor, Department of Political Science
>
> Survey Director, Institute for Leadership and Public Policy
>
> California State University, Fresno
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 1:28 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
> wrote:
>
> But that primary was an election where in most counties you actively
> requested a ballot (either for that election or as a permanent absentee).
> This November election millions will get mail ballots they never requested
> - will they know to bring them with them to surrender?
>
>
>
> Eric McGhee or Thad Kousser (or anyone from that team), has your research
> with the early ?Vote Center? counties shown any indications of how much
> this is an issue?
>
>
>
> - Doug
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:04 PM Pamela S Karlan <pkarlan at stanford.edu>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Fred and Nate,
>
>
>
> If the primary is any indication, at my polling place, it seemed that most
> of us who were voting in person *did* hand in our VBM ballot.
>
>
>
> It's interesting that the Secretary of State's website doesn't say
> anything about this.:
> https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/>
>
>
>
> Pamela S. Karlan
>
> Kenneth and Harle Montgomery Professor of Public Interest Law
>
> Co-Director, Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
>
> Stanford Law School
>
> karlan at stanford.edu
>
> 650-725-4851
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on
> behalf of Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52 AM
> *To:* Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu>; Election Law Listserv <
> law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>
>
>
> Nate,
>
>
>
> I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the
> unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those
> counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no
> other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already
> been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
>
>
>
> I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling
> books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what
> means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see
> how that can be avoided in other counties.
>
>
>
> And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for
> invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their
> provisional ballots in every election.
>
>
>
> Fredric D. Woocher
>
> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>
> 10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> Los Angeles, CA 90024
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> fwoocher at strumwooch.com
>
> (310) 576-1233 x105
>
>
>
> *IMPORTANT NOTICE**:* Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order,
> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. *Packages requiring
> signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this
> method.* While our office is closed, *Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents
> to electronic service in all of its matters*. Please serve by electronic
> mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com AND to our Senior Legal Assistant,
> LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com. We reserve the right to
> object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not actually received by
> counsel before all statutory deadlines.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Law-election [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu]
> *On Behalf Of *Nate Persily
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
> *To:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject:* [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>
>
>
> Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in
> California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is,
> given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will
> those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional
> ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
>
> ----------------
>
> Nate Persily
>
> James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
> Stanford Law School
> 559 Nathan Abbott Way
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> Stanford, CA 94305-8610
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> (917) 570-3223
> npersily at stanford.edu
>
> www.persily.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
> --
>
> Douglas Johnson
> National Demographics Corporation
> djohnson at NDCresearch.com
> phone 310-200-2058
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 15:55:55 -0700
From: Dan Meek <dan at meek.net>
To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California and Oregon
Message-ID: <f49cca89-9fad-8d87-e457-9d79d22d9d0f at meek.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
Oregon has a "first vote counts" system. In Oregon, the government
mails ballots to all registered voters. If a voter returns a ballot to
the county election office, either through the mail or drop box, that
voter is done. There is no way to change the vote, even if the voter
realizes that he has made an error.
A voter can obtain a second ballot by stating that the first one has
been lost. But, if the first ballot actually arrives at a county
election office anytime before 8 pm on election night, that is the vote
that counts, and the second ballot is not counted.
And Oregon does not have polling places, except for one Election Office
in each of its 36 counties. Even if a voter goes to a county elections
office and obtains a second ballot, the first ballot is the one that
counts, if it is received by the elections office by 8 pm on election day.
I have suggested that the system be changed so that the "last vote
counts" instead of the "first vote vounts."
Dan Meek
503-293-9021 dan at meek.net <mailto:dan at meek.net> 855-280-0488 fax
On 8/17/2020 3:03 PM, Pedro Hernandez wrote:
> To add to what Justin and Lisa have said ...
>
> In June, post governor's executive order, the CA SoS has provided some
> guidance non-VCA/VCA counties:
> https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/ccrov/pdf/2020/june/20135jl.pdf<https://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/ccrov/pdf/2020/june/20135jl.pdf> (see
> page 2, Voting Opportunities, In-Person voting opportunities) --
> non-VCA counties are to provide at least one polling place (it then
> clarifies that it means a Vote Center) per 10k registered voters.
>
> There are a lot of reasons why a person might want to vote in person
> instead of VBM, which they are allowed to do. A voter might have made
> a mistake on their ballot, so they might want to surrender their
> ballot and vote in person if there isn't enough time to have a new
> ballot mailed to them. Remember, HAVA requires machines to notify
> voters of an overvote
> <https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/help-america-vote-act/hava-state-plan-2003/section-1/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/help-america-vote-act/hava-state-plan-2003/section-1/>>
> .... envelopes can't do that -- so my advice has been that voters
> should make a plan, and double check their ballots for errors. In my
> limited study of SF elections, most overvotes during our odd-year
> election occurred via VBM ballots.
>
> I haven't seen any language that modifies ? 3015
> <https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=ELEC&division=3.&title=&part=&chapter=1.&article=<https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displayText.xhtml?lawCode=ELEC&division=3.&title=&part=&chapter=1.&article=>> (a
> VBM voter can cast a nonprovisional ballot if they surrender their VBM
> ballot, and there are a few more exceptions listed in 3015 and
> explained below in the SoS poll worker training standards
> <https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three/>>.
>
>
> Hope that's helpful.
> - Pedro
>
> --------------
> from
> https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-resources/voting-california/help-strengthen-our-democracy/poll-worker-info/poll-worker-training-standards/section-three/>
>
>
> Vote-by-Mail Voting
>
> * Vote-by-mail voters have three options if they decide not to mail
> their ballots in. They can:
> 1. 1. Turn in the voted vote-by-mail ballot in person to the
> office of the elections official, any polling place in the
> state, a vote center, a vote-by-mail drop-off location, or a
> drop box on or before 8:00 p.m. on election day. (??
> 2300(a)(7), 3020, 14212);
> 2. 2. Appear at their designated polling place on Election Day,
> or appear at a vote center or the regular or satellite office
> of their elections official and,
> o ? Vote a nonprovisional ballot if either of the following
> conditions is satisfied (? 3015):
> + (a) The voter surrenders their vote-by-mail ballot, or
> + (b) The voter is unable to surrender their
> vote-by-mail ballot, but the precinct board, vote
> center election board, or elections official does all
> of the following:
> # (i)Verifies that the voter has not returned his or
> her voted vote-by-mail ballot, and
> # (ii)Notates the voter?s voter record to ensure
> that the voter?s vote-by-mail ballot is not cast
> or tabulated after they vote at the polls.
> o ? Vote a provisional ballot if (?? 3016, 14310(f)):
> + (a) The voter is unable to surrender their
> vote-by-mail ballot and
> + (b) The precinct board, vote center election board, or
> elections official cannot:
> # (i) Verify if the voter has returned their voted
> vote-by-mail ballot, and
> # (i) Verify if the voter has returned their voted
> vote-by-mail ballot, and
> # -OR-
> # (iii) The voter is unable to surrender their
> vote-by-mail ballot and the precinct board or
> elections official (in a non-VCA county) cannot
> readily determine if the voter is in the correct
> polling location.
> * It is not uncommon for a voter to receive a vote-by-mail ballot in
> the mail, then either forget to mail it back before Election Day
> or decide to hand-deliver it to the polls. Poll workers must be
> informed they must accept any vote-by- mail ballot issued to any
> voter in the state, either from the voter or from a designated
> third party delivering it for the voter. County elections
> officials will sort those vote by mail ballots into the proper
> precinct or forward them to the appropriate California county
> election official. Designated third parties are any person who is
> not compensated based on the number of ballots returned if the
> voter requested and received their ballot under late vote-by-mail
> conditions (7 or fewer days before Election Day), the voter can
> authorize any person to return the ballot for them. (?? 3017, 3021)
> * Sometimes voters change their minds and want to vote at the polls
> instead of by mail. Poll workers should be taught how to handle
> surrendered vote-by-mail ballots brought in by these voters. Poll
> workers should be trained how to record and handle voted and
> surrendered vote-by-mail ballots (surrendered vote-by-mail ballot
> will not be counted), where to store them, and how they should be
> handled after the polls close. (?? 3015, 3017)
> * In the event a vote-by-mail voter does not sign his or her
> vote-by-mail envelope, the voter may fill out and timely return an
> ?Unsigned Ballot Envelope Statement? to the elections official,
> which includes a polling place and a ballot dropoff box. The
> elections officials should provide ?Unsigned Ballot Envelope
> Statement? forms at all polling places for use by voters. (? 3019)
> * When processing voted vote-by-mail ballots, elections officials
> are required to compare the signature on the return envelope
> against the signature(s) of the voter in the voter?s record. If
> the signatures do not match, the elections officials must notify
> the voter, who may submit a ?Signature Verification Statement? to
> verify (cure) his or her signature before certification of the
> election. The ?Signature Verification Statement? must be timely
> returned to the elections official, which includes a polling place
> and a ballot dropoff box. The elections official should provide
> ?Signature Verification Statement? forms at all polling places for
> use by voters. (? 3019)
>
>
> Pedro Hernandez
> Pronouns: He/Him/His
> Senior Policy Coordinator, Voting Rights & Ranked Choice Voting
> http://fairvote.org<http://fairvote.org>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:32 PM Levitt, Justin <justin.levitt at lls.edu
> <mailto:justin.levitt at lls.edu>> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Lisa, for the clarification.
>
> For those following the bouncing balls, I _believe_ this means
> that voters in California counties with vote centers, as long as
> the e-pollbooks at those vote centers are working, those voting in
> person will usually get a ?regular? ballot. The only time those
> voters get a provisional is if they?re not on the rolls, or if
> records show they have actually returned a mail ballot already.
> (If a mail ballot arrives at the county after a voter has already
> voted the regular ballot in person, the mail ballot will not count.)
>
> And for those voting in counties with traditional polling places,
> I believe those voting in person can get a regular ballot by
> surrendering their mail ballot. Those who do not surrender their
> mail ballot will vote a provisional.
>
> Given how many voters live in VCA counties, as Lisa says, I think
> that means the answer to Nate?s question is that most California
> voters who choose to vote in person will not be casting
> provisional ballots.
>
> And given the confusion (and the natural desire to facilitate
> information about ?how it works in California? based on personal
> experience in one county), that speaks to the immense importance
> of communication to voters
> <https://redistricting.lls.edu/other/Levitt USCCR testimony 20200708.pdf#page=16<https://redistricting.lls.edu/other/Levitt USCCR testimony 20200708.pdf#page=16>>
> about how the process works for them ? not just in California, but
> everywhere. That?s best done locally by county administrators,
> who can speak to voters in their county without the all of the
> different combinations state officials may have to account for.
> And _that_ brings me back to the familiar issue on this listserv
> of needing to make sure that the counties get the funding they?ve
> been begging for, to make that communication possible.
>
> Justin
>
> *From:*Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>> *On Behalf
> Of *Lisa Bryant
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 1:45 PM
> *To:* Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com
> <mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>>
> *Cc:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
> California
>
> Yes, "most counties" did not receive ballots automatically, but
> about 50% of CA voters lived in a VCA county where they
> automatically received a ballot in the mail for the primary
> election this year. In those counties, if they didn't take their
> ballot to the vote center with them the vote center printed a new
> ballot and voided the mailed ballot. They did not have to vote
> provisionally.
>
> Even prior to VCA, over 60% of registered voters in CA were
> registered for permanent absentee ballots, as high as 75% in some
> counties. CA also has a couple of counties that are were
> exclusively VBM prior to VCA due to small populations and their
> rural nature. CA, as a whole, is pretty familiar with VBM and
> absentee ballots.
>
> Best,
>
> Lisa
>
> Lisa Bryant, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Professor, Department of Political Science
>
> Survey Director, Institute for Leadership and Public Policy
>
> California State University, Fresno
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 1:28 PM Douglas Johnson
> <djohnson at ndcresearch.com <mailto:djohnson at ndcresearch.com>> wrote:
>
> But that primary was an election where in most counties you
> actively requested a ballot (either for that election or as a
> permanent absentee). This November election millions will get
> mail ballots they never requested - will they know to bring
> them with them to surrender?
>
> Eric McGhee or Thad Kousser (or anyone from that team), has
> your research with the early ?Vote Center? counties shown any
> indications of how much this is an issue?
>
> - Doug
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:04 PM Pamela S Karlan
> <pkarlan at stanford.edu <mailto:pkarlan at stanford.edu>> wrote:
>
> Dear Fred and Nate,
>
> If the primary is any indication, at my polling place, it
> seemed that most of us who were voting in person _did_
> hand in our VBM ballot.
>
> It's interesting that the Secretary of State's website
> doesn't say anything about this.:
> https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/>
>
> Pamela S. Karlan
>
> Kenneth and Harle Montgomery Professor of Public Interest Law
>
> Co-Director, Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
>
> Stanford Law School
>
> karlan at stanford.edu <mailto:karlan at stanford.edu>
>
> 650-725-4851
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Law-election
> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>> on
> behalf of Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com
> <mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52 AM
> *To:* Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu
> <mailto:npersily at law.stanford.edu>>; Election Law Listserv
> <law-election at uci.edu <mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional
> voting in California
>
> Nate,
>
> I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter
> hands in the unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could
> be otherwise. For those counties that will still be using
> traditional polling places, there is no other way for the
> pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already been
> returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
>
> I believe some counties that have the ability to use
> electronic polling books, with real-time countywide
> information on who has voted and by what means, may be
> able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t
> see how that can be avoided in other counties.
>
> And this has the potential to introduce an additional
> grounds for invalidating the voted ballot, because many
> people forget to sign their provisional ballots in every
> election.
>
> Fredric D. Woocher
>
> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>
> 10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> Los Angeles, CA 90024
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>
> fwoocher at strumwooch.com <mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
>
> (310) 576-1233 x105
>
> *_IMPORTANT NOTICE_**:*Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at
> Home? Order, Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE
> PUBLIC. *_Packages requiring signatures will be returned
> undelivered ? do not serve papers by this method_.* While
> our office is closed, *Strumwasser & Woocher LLP consents
> to electronic service in all of its matters*. Please
> serve by electronic mail to fwoocher at strumwooch.com
> <mailto:fwoocher at strumwooch.com>AND to our Senior Legal
> Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at loliver at strumwooch.com
> <mailto:loliver at strumwooch.com>. We reserve the right to
> object to any notice or delivery of any kind if not
> actually received by counsel before all statutory deadlines.
>
> *From:*Law-election
> [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>]
> *On Behalf Of *Nate Persily
> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
> *To:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu
> <mailto:law-election at uci.edu>>
> *Subject:* [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
> California
>
> Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in
> person in California this November will need to vote a
> provisional ballot? That is, given that all active
> registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will those
> who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a
> provisional ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
>
> ----------------
>
> Nate Persily
>
> James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
> Stanford Law School
> 559 Nathan Abbott Way
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> Stanford, CA 94305-8610
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
> (917) 570-3223
> npersily at stanford.edu <mailto:npersily at stanford.edu>
>
> www.persily.com <http://www.persily.com/<http://www.persily.com/>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
> --
>
> Douglas Johnson
> National Demographics Corporation
> djohnson at NDCresearch.com <mailto:djohnson at NDCresearch.com>
> phone 310-200-2058
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> <mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
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Message: 15
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 16:19:25 -0700
From: Ben Raderstorf <ben.raderstorf at protectdemocracy.org>
To: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
Subject: [EL] ICYMI: National Task Force on Election Crises Issues
Report on Primary Elections and Implications for November?s General
Election
Message-ID:
<CABNCw7bEBBPZ=5T_=v7XGF3cq3G0diQfdnrHUNpWZyBzBjOSOg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi all,
In case you missed it (I think it was on the blog, but not sent over the
list) the National Task Force on Election Crises
<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/<https://www.electiontaskforce.org>>, which includes a number of folks on
this listserv, released a report
<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryReport.pdf<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryReport.pdf>> last week on
the primary elections with analysis on what worked well and what didn?t,
along with recommendations for how these learnings can be applied to the
election in November. The goal of the report??Lessons Learned from the
Primaries: Recommendations for Avoiding a Crisis in November??is to help
state and local officials, as well as the media, prepare for potential
crises during this year?s general election.
The Task Force is a pretty exceptional group
<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/members<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/members>> of notable people spanning the
ideological spectrum, so hopefully it's a helpful, convincing, and
comprehensive one-stop document for all your advocacy needs. Press release
is below. Time Magazine also wrote a summary article here
<https://time.com/5878957/election-crises-how-to-fix/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=politics_2020-election&linkId=97042673<https://time.com/5878957/election-crises-how-to-fix/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_term=politics_2020-election&linkId=97042673>>.
Cheers,
-Ben
____________
Ben Raderstorf
Policy Advocate
Protect Democracy
[image: A picture containing food Description automatically generated]
*National Task Force on Election Crises Issues Report on Primary Elections
and Implications for November?s General Election *
*Washington, DC ? August 13, 2020 ? *Today, the National Task Force on
Election Crises <https://www.electiontaskforce.org/<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/>> released its ?Lessons
from the Primary Elections: Recommendations for Avoiding a Crisis in
November.? <https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryReport.pdf<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryReport.pdf>> This
report on the primary elections features analysis on what did and did not
work well, along with recommendations for how these lessons can be applied
to secure a free and fair election in November. The goal of the report is
to help prepare state and local officials, as well as the media and general
public for the general election.
The Task Force found that while many state and local officials rose to the
occasion and managed to conduct primary elections with relative success,
there were also significant failures that left many voters disenfranchised
and risked the health of voters and election workers alike. Conducting
elections under extraordinary circumstances?including a global pandemic, a
related economic crisis, and civil unrest?presented myriad challenges that,
if not addressed, could negatively impact voting and ballot counting in
November.
?The nation has an opportunity to learn from its experiences during the
primaries and improve for the general election. In fact, it is imperative
that we do so in order to ensure safe and secure participation in the
election and maximize confidence in the outcome,? the Task Force states in
the report. ?While we cannot know precisely what challenges November will
bring, or predict what else might happen between now and then, it is
imperative that we prepare for the worst. But with Election Day just months
away (and early and absentee voting starting soon in many places), there is
no time to waste.?
The report identifies the following key lessons from the primary elections:
- *Early voting was an important element of making voting safer and more
accessible*.
- *Absentee voting* *played a central role in voting during a
pandemic. *
- *In-person voting on Election Day* *continued to be a crucial option
for many voters.*
- *Official communications and media coverage* *were critically
important*.
Based on these lessons, the report includes recommendations for election
officials regarding early voting, absentee/mail voting, in-person voting on
Election Day, and official communications in the general election. In
addition, the Task Force offers recommendations for media, including how
best to report critical election information and manage public expectations
about the timing of election results.
As the report concluded, ?Free and fair elections are the cornerstone of
our democracy. No citizen should have to choose between exercising their
right to vote and protecting their health or safety. Yet the general
election may force exactly that choice if we do not act soon to mitigate
the potential for a crisis. With November fast approaching, there is no
time to waste. State and local officials should be preparing now to conduct
the general election in a way that ensures safe and secure participation by
all eligible voters and maximizes confidence in the outcome.?
The full report, ?Lessons from the Primary Elections: Recommendations for
Avoiding a Crisis in November,? can be found here
<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryReport.pdf<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryReport.pdf>>, along with an
Executive Summary posted here
<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryExecSummary.pdf<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/s/PostPrimaryExecSummary.pdf>>.
Please see below for quotes from Task Force members:
?We?ve never seen a primary season like we did this year, and November?s
general election is likely to face many of the same challenges,? said *Task
Force member Jennifer Morrell, and Partner at Elections Group and the
former Deputy of Elections in Arapahoe County, Colorado*. ?Our democracy
requires that we address these challenges head on now, so that every
eligible voter is able to cast a ballot and have that ballot counted in the
general election.?
?Our nation has faced adversity before, and we will again, but we should
also be as prepared as possible. Applying the lessons from the primaries to
November?s general election is necessary, and crucial for the health of our
democracy,? said *Task Force member Trey Grayson, Former Secretary of State
of Kentucky and the Former President of the National Association of
Secretaries of State*. ?Elections are the foundation of our democracy, we
have to get this right.?
?Primary season showed that election operations are under stress, and that
stress can be mitigated in significant ways by learning from both our
successes and our mistakes to build resilience for the General Election,?
said *Task Force member Ryan Macias, Former Acting Director of Testing and
Certification, U.S. Election Assistance Commission.* ?Many of the same
risks to a free and fair election will remain in November, and it?s
paramount that we ensure every eligible voter can access the ballot box
safely and securely.?
?With so many hard working public servants racing against the calendar to
secure a free and fair general election in November, these recommendations
can serve as a road map for how to be effective,? said *Task Force member
Michael Steele, Chair of U.S. Vote Foundation and the Former Chair of the
Republican National Committee*. ?Working together, across professional and
partisan divides, we?re doing everything we can to support that effort.?
?No voter should have to choose between her health and her democracy,
because voting is fundamental to our responsibility as citizens of a
democracy, and to the health of our democracy,? said *Task Force member
Virginia Kase, CEO of the League of Women Voters of the United States*.
?We?ve seen the impact that multiple crises have had on the primary
elections, and we have the chance now to make improvements in time for the
general election.?
*About the National Task Force on Election Crises*
The mission of the cross-partisan National Task Force on Election Crises is
to ensure a free and fair 2020 election by recommending responses to a
range of election crises. The Task Force is a diverse group of more than 50
experts in election law, election administration, national security,
cybersecurity, voting rights, civil rights, technology, media, public
health, and emergency response. A full list of the Task Force members can
be found here <https://www.electiontaskforce.org/members<https://www.electiontaskforce.org/members>> and you can
follow the Task Force on Twitter here <https://twitter.com/electiontask<https://twitter.com/electiontask>>.
#
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------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:11:30 -0700
From: Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
To: Lisa Bryant <lbryant at csufresno.edu>
Cc: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
California
Message-ID:
<CAEpM-E1bM7-U2W-cB9Bi0Herib78eF7mAtmfiTwXhswUDj7nuQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Capturing just how confusing this all is even for those spending a lot of
time studying it, the statement that " about 50% of CA voters lived in a
VCA county where they automatically received a ballot in the mail for the
primary election" is incorrect. That reflects a common misperception about
the status of Los Angeles County, which was a pseudo-VCA county. Los
Angeles set up vote centers rather than traditional precincts, but did NOT
mail every voter a ballot. Taking Los Angeles out of the count drops that
percentage from 50% to 25%. (For those not from California, Los Angeles
County is slightly over 25% of the state's population).
But the statement about 60% of voters being permanent absentees sounds
correct to me, though I did not double-check that.
- Doug
On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 1:45 PM Lisa Bryant <lbryant at csufresno.edu> wrote:
> Yes, "most counties" did not receive ballots automatically, but about 50%
> of CA voters lived in a VCA county where they automatically received a
> ballot in the mail for the primary election this year. In those counties,
> if they didn't take their ballot to the vote center with them the vote
> center printed a new ballot and voided the mailed ballot. They did not have
> to vote provisionally.
>
> Even prior to VCA, over 60% of registered voters in CA were registered for
> permanent absentee ballots, as high as 75% in some counties. CA also has a
> couple of counties that are were exclusively VBM prior to VCA due to small
> populations and their rural nature. CA, as a whole, is pretty familiar
> with VBM and absentee ballots.
>
> Best,
> Lisa
>
>
> Lisa Bryant, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor, Department of Political Science
> Survey Director, Institute for Leadership and Public Policy
> California State University, Fresno
>
> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 1:28 PM Douglas Johnson <djohnson at ndcresearch.com>
> wrote:
>
>> But that primary was an election where in most counties you actively
>> requested a ballot (either for that election or as a permanent absentee).
>> This November election millions will get mail ballots they never requested
>> - will they know to bring them with them to surrender?
>>
>> Eric McGhee or Thad Kousser (or anyone from that team), has your research
>> with the early ?Vote Center? counties shown any indications of how much
>> this is an issue?
>>
>> - Doug
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 12:04 PM Pamela S Karlan <pkarlan at stanford.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Fred and Nate,
>>>
>>> If the primary is any indication, at my polling place, it seemed that
>>> most of us who were voting in person *did* hand in our VBM ballot.
>>>
>>> It's interesting that the Secretary of State's website doesn't say
>>> anything about this.:
>>> https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/<https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/voting-info/ways-vote/>
>>>
>>> Pamela S. Karlan
>>>
>>> Kenneth and Harle Montgomery Professor of Public Interest Law
>>>
>>> Co-Director, Supreme Court Litigation Clinic
>>>
>>> Stanford Law School
>>>
>>> karlan at stanford.edu
>>>
>>> 650-725-4851
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on
>>> behalf of Fredric Woocher <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:52 AM
>>> *To:* Nate Persily <npersily at law.stanford.edu>; Election Law Listserv <
>>> law-election at uci.edu>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in
>>> California
>>>
>>>
>>> Nate,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not know the answer for certain, but unless the voter hands in the
>>> unvoted VBM ballot, I don?t see how it could be otherwise. For those
>>> counties that will still be using traditional polling places, there is no
>>> other way for the pollworkers to know whether the voted VBM has already
>>> been returned prior to casting a ballot at the polling place.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe some counties that have the ability to use electronic polling
>>> books, with real-time countywide information on who has voted and by what
>>> means, may be able to avoid the use of provisional ballots, but I don?t see
>>> how that can be avoided in other counties.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And this has the potential to introduce an additional grounds for
>>> invalidating the voted ballot, because many people forget to sign their
>>> provisional ballots in every election.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>Fredric
>>> D. Woocher
>>>
>>> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>>>
>>> 10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>>
>>> Los Angeles, CA 90024
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000 Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/10940 Wilshire Blvd., Ste. 2000
Los Angeles, CA 90024?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>>
>>> fwoocher at strumwooch.com
>>>
>>> (310) 576-1233 x105
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *IMPORTANT NOTICE**:* Pursuant to the Governor?s ?Stay at Home? Order,
>>> Strumwasser & Woocher LLP is CLOSED TO THE PUBLIC. *Packages requiring
>>> signatures will be returned undelivered ? do not serve papers by this
>>> method.* While our office is closed, *Strumwasser & Woocher LLP
>>> consents to electronic service in all of its matters*. Please serve by
>>> electronic mail to *fwoocher at strumwooch.com <fwoocher at strumwooch.com>*
>>> AND to our Senior Legal Assistant, LaKeitha Oliver, at
>>> loliver at strumwooch.com. We reserve the right to object to any notice
>>> or delivery of any kind if not actually received by counsel before all
>>> statutory deadlines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Law-election [mailto:
>>> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *Nate
>>> Persily
>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 17, 2020 11:45 AM
>>> *To:* Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
>>> *Subject:* [EL] Quick question about provisional voting in California
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if the voters who will choose to vote in person in
>>> California this November will need to vote a provisional ballot? That is,
>>> given that all active registrants will receive ballots in the mail, will
>>> those who opt for polling places necessarily be casting a provisional
>>> ballot, rather than a "normal" ballot?
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>>
>>> Nate Persily
>>>
>>> James B. McClatchy Professor of Law
>>> Stanford Law School
>>> 559 Nathan Abbott Way
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>> Stanford, CA 94305-8610
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g<https://www.google.com/maps/search/559 Nathan Abbott Way
Stanford, CA 94305-8610?entry=gmail&source=g>>
>>> (917) 570-3223
>>> npersily at stanford.edu
>>>
>>> www.persily.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Law-election mailing list
>>> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>>> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>>
>> --
>> Douglas Johnson
>> National Demographics Corporation
>> djohnson at NDCresearch.com
>> phone 310-200-2058
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Law-election mailing list
>> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>> https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election<https://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election>
>
>
--
Douglas Johnson
National Demographics Corporation
djohnson at NDCresearch.com
phone 310-200-2058
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------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 03:29:48 +0000
From: Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu>
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: [EL] ELB News and Commentary 8/18/20
Message-ID: <54095EE0-7EA7-4170-A054-4FD957688200 at ad.uci.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
?Postal Crisis Has States Looking for Alternatives to Mail-In Ballots?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114184<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114184>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 8:26 pm<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114184<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114184>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
NYT:<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/us/politics/postal-service-voting.html<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/us/politics/postal-service-voting.html>>
Postal slowdowns and warnings of delayed mail-in ballots are causing election officials to rethink vote-by-mail strategies, with some states seeking to bypass the post office with ballot drop boxes, drive-through drop-offs or expanded in-person voting options, despite the coronavirus pandemic.
The 2020 election was supposed to be the largest-ever experiment in voting by mail, but the Trump administration?s late cost-cutting push at the Postal Service<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/us/post-office-vote-by-mail.html<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/us/post-office-vote-by-mail.html>> has shaken the confidence of voters and Democratic officials alike. The images of sorting machines being removed from postal facilities, mailboxes uprooted or bolted shut on city streets, and packages piling up at mail facilities have sparked anger and deep worry.
Even if, as the Postal Service says, it has plenty of capacity to process mail-in ballots, the fear is that the psychological damage is already done. So as Democrats in Washington fight to restore Postal Service funding<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/us/politics/coronavirus-postal-service-stimulus-bill.html<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/16/us/politics/coronavirus-postal-service-stimulus-bill.html>>, election officials around the country are looking for a Plan B.
?The office has been flooded with calls for the past few days,? said Katie Hobbs, the secretary of state of Arizona and a Democrat. ?The concern I have is that, like any campaign of misinformation, it attempts to undermine voters? confidence in our process.?
Planning in the states proceeded Monday, as House Democrats prepared for a Saturday vote on legislation that would reverse cost-cutting measures at the Postal Service and pump $25 billion in emergency funding into the ailing agency. Democrats were also pressuring the Postal Service board to reverse those policies.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114184&title=“Postal Crisis Has States Looking for Alternatives to Mail-In Ballots<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114184&title=“Postal Crisis Has States Looking for Alternatives to Mail-In Ballots>D>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
?Trump?s assessment of mail-in voting continues to be both muddled and dishonest; Most states are doing precisely what Trump claims to support.?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114182<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114182>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 8:21 pm<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114182<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114182>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Philip Bump WaPo analysis<https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/17/trumps-assessment-mail-in-voting-continues-be-both-muddled-dishonest/<https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/17/trumps-assessment-mail-in-voting-continues-be-both-muddled-dishonest>>.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114182&title=“Trump’s assessment of mail-in voting continues to be both muddled and dishonest; Most states are doing precisely what Trump claims to support<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114182&title=“Trump’s assessment of mail-in voting continues to be both muddled and dishonest; Most states are doing precisely what Trump claims to support>.D>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
?Trump warns of ?rigged election? as he uses conspiracy and fear to counter Biden?s convention week?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114180<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114180>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 8:18 pm<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114180<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114180>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
CNN:<https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/17/politics/donald-trump-campaign-swing/index.html<https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/17/politics/donald-trump-campaign-swing/index.html>>
President Donald Trump?s<http://www.cnn.com/specials/politics/president-donald-trump-45<http://www.cnn.com/specials/politics/president-donald-trump-45>> darkly portentous campaign message came into stark focus Monday as he launched his most intensive campaign swing since the start of the coronavirus pandemic<http://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/health/wuhan-coronavirus-timeline-fast-facts/index.html<http://www.cnn.com/2020/02/06/health/wuhan-coronavirus-timeline-fast-facts/index.html>>, warning of ?fascist? Democrats with a ?Trojan horse? candidate during stops in the Upper Midwest.
The dire warnings ? reliant on false information and racist tropes ? foreshadowed a bitter fall campaign as Trump seeks to reverse a slide in the polls. And they presaged a drawn out post-election battle as Trump preempted a potential loss with warnings of fraud.
?The only way we?re going to lose this election is if this election is rigged,? he said during a stop in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, the second of several battleground events he is using this week to counterprogram the Democrats? all-digital convention.
Over the past week, Trump?s attempts at shoring up his political standing have taken on a frantic and often conspiratorial energy, including attempts to limit mail-in voting by refusing new funding for the post office, racist and sexist attacks on former Vice President Joe Biden?s<https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/candidate/biden<https://www.cnn.com/election/2020/candidate/biden>> new running mate and persistent unfounded warnings that November?s vote will be rigged.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114180&title=“Trump warns of ‘rigged election’ as he uses conspiracy and fear to counter Biden’s convention week<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114180&title=“Trump warns of ‘rigged election’ as he uses conspiracy and fear to counter Biden’s convention week>D>
Posted in Election Meltdown<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=127<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=127>>
?Missouri judge finds GOP redistricting measure misleading?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114178<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114178>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 8:07 pm<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114178<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114178>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
AP reports<https://www.yahoo.com/news/missouri-judge-finds-gop-redistricting-180530554.html<https://www.yahoo.com/news/missouri-judge-finds-gop-redistricting-180530554.html>>.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114178&title=“Missouri judge finds GOP redistricting measure misleading<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114178&title=“Missouri judge finds GOP redistricting measure misleading>D>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
?US District Court judge strikes down Montana?s ?truth in labeling? law?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114176<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114176>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 2:55 pm<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114176<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114176>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Great Falls Tribune<https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2020/08/17/montana-judge-strikes-down-law-political-action-committees-truth-labeling/3370770001/<https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2020/08/17/montana-judge-strikes-down-law-political-action-committees-truth-labeling/3370770001>>:
A U.S. District Court judge has, in a lawsuit that pitted the political action committee Doctors for a Healthy Montana against Commissioner of Political Practices Jeff Mangan and Attorney General Tim Fox, struck down a state law that promoted truth in labeling of such groups.
Judge Dana L. Christensen wrote Aug. 11 that while ?Doctors for a Healthy Choice? may be a misleading name, however, ?at no point can it be said that the name was factually incorrect.?
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114176&title=“US District Court judge strikes down Montana’s ‘truth in labeling’ law<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114176&title=“US District Court judge strikes down Montana’s ‘truth in labeling’ law>D>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
?Can Trump Legally Limit Mail-In Balloting??<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114174<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114174>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 12:17 pm<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114174<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114174>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Latest<https://soundcloud.com/freeandfair/can-trump-legally-limit-mail-in-voting<https://soundcloud.com/freeandfair/can-trump-legally-limit-mail-in-voting>> ?Free and Fair? podcast with Franita and Foley.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114174&title=“Can Trump Legally Limit Mail-In Balloting?<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114174&title=“Can Trump Legally Limit Mail-In Balloting?>D>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
?Honestly, Just Vote In Person?It?s Safer Than You Think; The panic over the US Postal Service is legitimate, but here?s the good news: It?s not that risky to cast a ballot by hand.?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114172<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114172>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 12:02 pm<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114172<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114172>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Gilad Edelman<https://www.wired.com/story/honestly-just-vote-in-person-its-safer-than-you-think/<https://www.wired.com/story/honestly-just-vote-in-person-its-safer-than-you-think>> for Wired.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114172&title=“Honestly, Just Vote In Person—It’s Safer Than You Think; The panic over the US Postal Service is legitimate, but here’s the good news: It’s not that risky to cast a ballot by hand<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114172&title=“Honestly, Just Vote In Person—It’s Safer Than You Think; The panic over the US Postal Service is legitimate, but here’s the good news: It’s not that risky to cast a ballot by hand>.D>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
?Biden Supporters More Likely Than Trump?s to Vote by Mail, Poll Shows; New Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey finds Democrats are more confident than Republicans that November results would be tallied accurately?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114170<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114170>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 10:37 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114170<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114170>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
WSJ:<https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-supporters-more-likely-than-trumps-to-vote-by-mail-poll-shows-11597683600?mod=politics_lead_pos5<https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-supporters-more-likely-than-trumps-to-vote-by-mail-poll-shows-11597683600?mod=politics_lead_pos5>>
Supporters of presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden are more likely than Trump supporters to say they will vote by mail and are more likely to trust the accuracy of November?s ballot count, a new Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll finds, underscoring partisan differences over how the election should be conducted<https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawsuits-over-voting-rules-coming-down-to-the-wire-11597432606<https://www.wsj.com/articles/lawsuits-over-voting-rules-coming-down-to-the-wire-11597432606>>.
Some 47% of voters who back Mr. Biden, the former vice president, plan to vote by mail rather than in person, compared with 11% of Trump supporters.
By contrast, 66% of Trump voters say they plan to cast ballots in person on Election Day, the poll found, compared with 26% of Biden supporters.
The results suggest that the two parties, in large measure, will have different voting experiences, though voters? plans could still change. The difference could also affect perceptions of which candidate is leading in the vote tally, since mailed ballots can take longer to count than in-person votes, and some election experts warn the winner might not be clear on Election Night<https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-we-know-who-is-elected-president-on-election-night-a-guide-to-possible-delays-11596629410<https://www.wsj.com/articles/will-we-know-who-is-elected-president-on-election-night-a-guide-to-possible-delays-11596629410>>.
?If the absentee ballots are favoring a different candidate than the one that was favored in the in-person voting, then, yes, we could see the victor change? in the course of vote-counting, said Stanford University law professor Nathaniel Persily?.
Some 55% percent of Democrats but 36% of Republicans said they were confident the November results would be tallied accurately. The gap was even wider when voters were asked about votes cast by mail. Some 65% of Democrats but only 23% of Republicans said mailed ballots would be properly counted.
Among all voters, 45% said they believed the November results would be tallied accurately, with 45% saying they lacked confidence. Trust has declined from 2016, when a Journal/NBC News survey found that 59% said they had confidence that the presidential election results would be counted accurately.
Asked in the new survey about mailed ballots, 45% of voters said they had confidence in an accurate count, and 51% said they lacked confidence.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114170&title=“Biden Supporters More Likely Than Trump’s to Vote by Mail, Poll Shows; New Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey finds Democrats are more confident than Republicans that November results would be tallied accurately<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114170&title=“Biden Supporters More Likely Than Trump’s to Vote by Mail, Poll Shows; New Wall Street Journal/NBC News survey finds Democrats are more confident than Republicans that November results would be tallied accurately>D>
Posted in absentee ballots<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=53<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=53>>, Election Meltdown<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=127<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=127>>
Must-read: ?An Oral History of the Bush-Gore; Florida Recount Problems in a single state resulted in the craziest presidential election in modern American history. A warning for 2020.?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114168<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114168>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 9:19 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114168<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114168>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
The Atlantic<https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/bush-gore-florida-recount-oral-history/614404/<https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/08/bush-gore-florida-recount-oral-history/614404>> talks to key players 20 years later.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114168&title=Must-read: “An Oral History of the Bush-Gore; Florida Recount Problems in a single state resulted in the craziest presidential election in modern American history. A warning for 2020<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114168&title=Must-read: “An Oral History of the Bush-Gore; Florida Recount Problems in a single state resulted in the craziest presidential election in modern American history. A warning for 2020>.D>
Posted in Bush v. Gore reflections<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=5<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=5>>
?Suffrage at 100: To mark the anniversary of the 19th Amendment, we?re revisiting the stories of how women won the right to vote in the United States.?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114166<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114166>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 8:18 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114166<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114166>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Important supplement<https://www.nytimes.com/spotlight/women-suffrage-100<https://www.nytimes.com/spotlight/women-suffrage-100>> in the New York Times.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114166&title=“Suffrage at 100: To mark the anniversary of the 19th Amendment, we’re revisiting the stories of how women won the right to vote in the United States<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114166&title=“Suffrage at 100: To mark the anniversary of the 19th Amendment, we’re revisiting the stories of how women won the right to vote in the United States>.D>
Posted in 19th Amendment<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=128<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=128>>
?How to make sure your ballot is counted this fall?<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114164<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114164>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 7:47 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114164<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114164>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Politifact guide.<https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/17/how-make-sure-your-ballot-counted-fall/?fbclid=IwAR2dEsWs9-ElxKqfHkT7WoHEn2wuQ3qiTkhp78LfqF3omPJVnIfSonJYXKs<https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/17/how-make-sure-your-ballot-counted-fall/?fbclid=IwAR2dEsWs9-ElxKqfHkT7WoHEn2wuQ3qiTkhp78LfqF3omPJVnIfSonJYXKs>>
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114164&title=“How to make sure your ballot is counted this fall<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114164&title=“How to make sure your ballot is counted this fall>D>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
Bob Bauer on the Two Reasons for Trump?s Attack on USPS and Vote by Mail<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114162<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114162>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 7:43 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114162<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114162>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Greg Sargent:<https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/17/trump-is-trying-corrupt-election-heres-how-biden-will-respond/<https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/08/17/trump-is-trying-corrupt-election-heres-how-biden-will-respond>>
Robert Bauer, the veteran election lawyer and senior adviser to the Biden campaign, told me the Biden team has come to believe Trump?s efforts have two goals. The obvious one: DeJoy?s changes could introduce chaos into the delivery of mail ballots, potentially disenfranchising untold numbers of voters, particularly in states<https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/31/trump-just-told-us-how-mail-delays-could-help-him-corrupt-election/?itid=lk_inline_manual_12<https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/31/trump-just-told-us-how-mail-delays-could-help-him-corrupt-election/?itid=lk_inline_manual_12>> where ballots that are postmarked before Election Day but arrive after won?t count.
?There is no possible justification for these operational changes, two months before the election,? Bauer told me.
House Democrats have called on<https://twitter.com/OversightDems/status/1295013993426358274<https://twitter.com/OversightDems/status/1295013993426358274>> DeJoy to reverse these changes and testify to Congress. They?ve demanded documents<https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/20200814_Letter_JointPelosiSchumerLofgrenKlobucharCBMPeterstoPMGreElectionPrep.pdf<https://oversight.house.gov/sites/democrats.oversight.house.gov/files/20200814_Letter_JointPelosiSchumerLofgrenKlobucharCBMPeterstoPMGreElectionPrep.pdf>> designed to probe their true nature and rationale. But the fear that they could impact the election is shared<https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1294977434379603968<https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1294977434379603968>> by some Republican officials.
The second goal behind Trump?s efforts is more subtle, but the Biden camp thinks it?s critical: By constantly (and falsely<https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/24/fact-checking-gops-satirical-vote-by-mail-video/?itid=lk_inline_manual_17<https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/06/24/fact-checking-gops-satirical-vote-by-mail-video/?itid=lk_inline_manual_17>>) attacking vote-by-mail as riddled with fraud, Trump and his allies are trying to dissuade people from using it at all, by persuading them their own ballots won?t be counted and by casting a pall of confusion over the whole process.
?Trump believes that his unfounded claims about mail voting are enough to discourage voters ? that he can use the presidential ?bully pulpit? to achieve vote suppression,? Bauer said.
In this assessment, the effort to get people to give up on mail voting is a second effort at voter suppression ? since they might also be reluctant to vote in person amid pandemic conditions ? layered on top of the more obvious effort to delay mail ballots.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114162&title=Bob Bauer on the Two Reasons for Trump’s Attack on USPS and Vote by Mail<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114162&title=Bob Bauer on the Two Reasons for Trump’s Attack on USPS and Vote by Mail>>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
Now Available: 2020 Teachers? Update for Laycock & Hasen, Modern American Remedies (5th edition)<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113096<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113096>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 7:39 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113096<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113096>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
[Bumping to the top:]
The 2020 Teachers? Update to Laycock and Hasen, Modern American Remedies<https://www.wklegaledu.com/laycock-remedies5<https://www.wklegaledu.com/laycock-remedies5>> (5th edition) covers Supreme Court developments through the end of the October 2019 term, including cases touching on the standards for emergency injunctions and rules for disgorgement. It also discusses current controversies such as disputes over the publication of a book by former National Security Advisor John Bolton, presidential immunity, the continuing debate over universal or nationwide injunctions, and other interesting developments in the lower courts.
You can find and distribute the Teachers? Update to the regular edition at this link<https://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/5th-ed-laycock-2020-supp-final.pdf<https://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/5th-ed-laycock-2020-supp-final.pdf>>.
You can find and distribute the Teachers? update to the concise edition<https://www.wklegaledu.com/laycock-remediesconcise5<https://www.wklegaledu.com/laycock-remediesconcise5>> at this link<https://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/5th-ed-laycock-2020-concise-supp-final.pdf<https://electionlawblog.org/wp-content/uploads/5th-ed-laycock-2020-concise-supp-final.pdf>>.
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113096&title=Now Available: 2020 Teachers’ Update for Laycock & Hasen, Modern American Remedies (5th edition)<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113096&title=Now Available: 2020 Teachers’ Update for Laycock & Hasen, Modern American Remedies (5th edition)>>
Posted in Remedies<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=57<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=57>>
Taking Torts This Fall? The New 4th Edition of My Study Aid, Glannon Guide to Torts, Is Now Available<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114158<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114158>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 7:35 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114158<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114158>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Details<https://www.wklegaledu.com/hasen-gg-torts4<https://www.wklegaledu.com/hasen-gg-torts4>>:
The Glannon Guide to Torts: Learning Torts Through Multiple-Choice Questions and Analysis, Fourth Editionis a powerful combination of well-written explanations, multiple-choice questions, analyses, and exam-taking tips. The text prepares you to take any type of exam that might be offered in a torts course. Honing your understanding of concepts and your ability to apply the rules, Richard L. Hasen presents a thoughtful review of course content?and, in the process, shows you how to effectively analyze and answer exam questions.
New to the Fourth Edition:
? Full emphasis on completed sections of the Restatement (Third) of Torts, replacing earlier Second restatement analyses
? Examination of rise of tort of purposeful infliction of bodily harm
? Updated analysis of federal preemption questions
Professors and students will benefit from:
? An extraordinarily user-friendly and interactive approach
? Multiple-choice questions, pitched at an appropriate level, and integrated into a thorough review of torts topics
? An introductory overview of torts law that prepares you to better understand subsequent chapters and questions
? Clear analysis of both correct and incorrect answers that clarify nuances in the law
? Valuable exam-taking pointers, applicable to every type of question, interspersed throughout the text
? A challenging final question at the end of each chapter that illustrates a sophisticated problem in the area under discussion
? Questions in the final chapter that review the concepts covered in the preceding chapters
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114158&title=Taking Torts This Fall? The New 4th Edition of My Study Aid, Glannon Guide to Torts, Is Now Available<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114158&title=Taking Torts This Fall? The New 4th Edition of My Study Aid, Glannon Guide to Torts, Is Now Available>>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
Taking an Election Law, Legislation, or Statutory Interpretation Course This Fall? Study Aid, the Second Edition of My ?Examples and Explanations? Book, is Now Available<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114156<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114156>>
Posted on August 17, 2020 7:33 am<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114156<https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114156>> by Rick Hasen<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3<https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>>
Details<https://www.wklegaledu.com/Hasen-EE-Legislation2<https://www.wklegaledu.com/Hasen-EE-Legislation2>>:
Examples & Explanations for Legislation, Statutory Interpretation, and Election Law, Second Edition is an up-to-date, user-friendly, and clear student-oriented treatise tackling the complex subjects in this field, including statutory interpretation, lobbying, bribery, redistricting, campaign finance law, and voting rights. The Second Edition is suitable for use with courses in Legislation and Regulation, Statutory Interpretation, Election Law, Voting Rights, and Campaign Finance. Written by Richard L. Hasen, one of the leading voices in the field of election law and legislation, no other statutory supplement is as comprehensive, up to date, and full of examples (and answers) to test student knowledge as Examples & Explanations for Legislation, Statutory Interpretation, and Election Law, Second Edition.
New to the 2nd Edition:
? Coverage through the Supreme Court?s June 2019 decisions, including partisan gerrymandering, court deference to agency interpretations, and the litigation over a citizenship question on the 2020 census
? Updated discussion of textualist methods of statutory interpretation following the death of Justice Scalia and the arrival of Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh
? Consideration of how increased political polarization shapes the legislative process and judicial review of legislation
? Updated material on campaign finance and voting rights
[Share]<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114156&title=Taking an Election Law, Legislation, or Statutory Interpretation Course This Fall? Study Aid, the Second Edition of My “Examples and Explanations” Book, is Now Available<https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https://electionlawblog.org/?p=114156&title=Taking an Election Law, Legislation, or Statutory Interpretation Course This Fall? Study Aid, the Second Edition of My “Examples and Explanations” Book, is Now Available>>
Posted in Uncategorized<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1<https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=1>>
--
Rick Hasen
Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
UC Irvine School of Law
401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
Irvine, CA 92697-8000
949.824.3072 - office
rhasen at law.uci.edu<mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>
http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/<http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen>
http://electionlawblog.org<http://electionlawblog.org><http://electionlawblog.org/<http://electionlawblog.org/>>
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------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 22:00:30 -0700
From: "D. A. Holtzman" <d at LAvoteFIRE.org>
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: [EL] Tennessee Ratification Celebration
Message-ID: <94df7630-f83e-e5bc-b7ef-535c1e6a179b at LAvoteFIRE.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
This looks promising!Very early in the morning on the West Coast, but a
replay is scheduled for noon Pacific Time (see note at end).
I?m looking forward to the reenactment in the Capitol, where it happened.
- David Holtzman
*Tennessee Ratification Celebration*
On August 18, 1920, Tennessee became the 36th and final state needed to
ratify the 19th Amendment into the U.S. Constitution. Tomorrow, the WSCC
[Women's Suffrage Centennial Commission] and its partners are
celebrating this critical milestone of American democracy with a full
day of virtual events and commemorations in honor of the state that
sealed the deal on suffrage. Check out the line-up below, and tune in
here
<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001nXq82njPlaRAOo7l96Q_FVR9SOyk0F0r1VCYrMNWcshdTwK4zGr-71uyqJB2ZWeYFzjhUNh6hgt2ms6m6-NxiqmOuVSK-dkqJVYpCyJMAtQm7JtjD7xdO0iLj77gXUEYL2sQ2RXpzvhwtixUw5sTWmJWKweFlRt4ZlSH8gWGYBBatDT4v-GueBgHqeyuhO6TwSy9vRqYEzA=&c=Hkmv0eEExeDYgTI5iZtIBZDBM1r8if2XB1g-1xmgA6l-P2dyyuI1Gg==&ch=eE1HgslVAeBQPNOXT31TR2ty3_0zszQLlcMhwW0WHfNjunfCJpJn4Q==<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001nXq82njPlaRAOo7l96Q_FVR9SOyk0F0r1VCYrMNWcshdTwK4zGr-71uyqJB2ZWeYFzjhUNh6hgt2ms6m6-NxiqmOuVSK-dkqJVYpCyJMAtQm7JtjD7xdO0iLj77gXUEYL2sQ2RXpzvhwtixUw5sTWmJWKweFlRt4ZlSH8gWGYBBatDT4v-GueBgHqeyuhO6TwSy9vRqYEzA=&c=Hkmv0eEExeDYgTI5iZtIBZDBM1r8if2XB1g-1xmgA6l-P2dyyuI1Gg==&ch=eE1HgslVAeBQPNOXT31TR2ty3_0zszQLlcMhwW0WHfNjunfCJpJn4Q==>>
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3xcNxz34c&feature=youtu.be<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3xcNxz34c&feature=youtu.be>).
*Special Welcome from Senator Marsha Blackburn*
Senator Blackburn (R-TN) will kick-off the day-long virtual celebration
with a special welcome message at 8am CT/9am ET.
*Herstory Time and Suffrage Tea*
Mother-daughter team Senator Blackburn and Mary Morgan Ketchel join the
WSCC for a special Herstory Time and Suffrage Tea reading and discussion
of their book, /Camilla Can Vote: Celebrating the Centennial of Women?s
Right to Vote, /at 8:45am CT/9:45am ET.
*Reenactment of the Tennessee Vote*
The Tennessee General Assembly will reenact Tennessee's dramatic vote on
ratification of the 19th Amendment. The reenactment will take place on
the floor of the House chamber at the Tennessee State Capitol,
livestreamed at 9:30am CT/10:30am ET.
*Skydiving for Suffrage*
Watch the livestream of the entire 11 person, all-female Highlight Pro
Skydiving Team safely but boldly take to the skies above Nashville with
brightly colored smoke, suffrage streamers and flags as they jump in
celebration of the centennial at 10:00am CT/11:00am ET.
*Keynote with Senator Marsha Blackburn*
Senator Blackburn joins WSCC Executive Director, Anna Laymon, for a
conversation on Tennessee's pivotal suffrage history at 11am CT/12pm ET.
*Replay of Entire Program*
In case you miss it in the morning, we'll be playing the entire program
again from [12noon PT/1pm MT] 2pm CT/3pm ET to 6pm CT/7pm ET.
--
Simple Instant Runoff Election Ballot
Candidates you want to vote for, in the order you prefer them:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
(...)
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Message: 19
Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:49:15 -0700
From: "D. A. Holtzman" <d at LAvoteFIRE.org>
To: Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: [EL] 19th Amendment ratification video now on FB [Re:
Tennessee Ratification Celebration
Message-ID: <65fa745c-597c-48f1-2fcd-1700071d30b1 at LAvoteFIRE.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
There were technical difficulties with the YouTube feed, but the
reenactment of Tennessee's nationally-decisive ratification has been
posted here:
https://www.facebook.com/tnwoman100/videos/594000564810725/<https://www.facebook.com/tnwoman100/videos/594000564810725>
Even with masks on many of the players, it is very moving.
On 8/17/2020 10:00 PM, D. A. Holtzman wrote:
>
> This looks promising!Very early in the morning on the West Coast, but
> a replay is scheduled for noon Pacific Time (see note at end).
> I?m looking forward to the reenactment in the Capitol, where it happened.
>
> - David Holtzman
>
> *Tennessee Ratification Celebration*
>
> On August 18, 1920, Tennessee became the 36th and final state needed
> to ratify the 19th Amendment into the U.S. Constitution. Tomorrow, the
> WSCC [Women's Suffrage Centennial Commission] and its partners are
> celebrating this critical milestone of American democracy with a full
> day of virtual events and commemorations in honor of the state that
> sealed the deal on suffrage. Check out the line-up below, and tune in
> here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3xcNxz34c&feature=youtu.be<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3xcNxz34c&feature=youtu.be>).
>
> *Special Welcome from Senator Marsha Blackburn*
>
> Senator Blackburn (R-TN) will kick-off the day-long virtual
> celebration with a special welcome message at 8am CT/9am ET.
>
> *Herstory Time and Suffrage Tea*
>
> Mother-daughter team Senator Blackburn and Mary Morgan Ketchel join
> the WSCC for a special Herstory Time and Suffrage Tea reading and
> discussion of their book, /Camilla Can Vote: Celebrating the
> Centennial of Women?s Right to Vote, /at 8:45am CT/9:45am ET.
>
> *Reenactment of the Tennessee Vote*
>
> The Tennessee General Assembly will reenact Tennessee's dramatic vote
> on ratification of the 19th Amendment. The reenactment will take place
> on the floor of the House chamber at the Tennessee State Capitol,
> livestreamed at 9:30am CT/10:30am ET.
>
> *Skydiving for Suffrage*
>
> Watch the livestream of the entire 11 person, all-female Highlight Pro
> Skydiving Team safely but boldly take to the skies above Nashville
> with brightly colored smoke, suffrage streamers and flags as they jump
> in celebration of the centennial at 10:00am CT/11:00am ET.
>
> *Keynote with Senator Marsha Blackburn*
>
> Senator Blackburn joins WSCC Executive Director, Anna Laymon, for a
> conversation on Tennessee's pivotal suffrage history at 11am CT/12pm ET.
>
> *Replay of Entire Program*
>
> In case you miss it in the morning, we'll be playing the entire
> program again from [12noon PT/1pm MT] 2pm CT/3pm ET to 6pm CT/7pm ET.
>
> --
> Simple Instant Runoff Election Ballot
>
> Candidates you want to vote for, in the order you prefer them:
> 1.
> 2.
> 3.
> 4.
> 5.
> (...)
--
Simple Instant Runoff Election Ballot
Candidates you want to vote for, in the order you prefer them:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
(...)
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