[EL] fairness of US elections

[Joseph E. La Rue]

My apologies: I realized after I sent the email that I failed to change the
subject line.

Richard Winger, we obviously disagree.  I'll simply say that the fact you
would prefer a different system, such as a popular vote election for
president, does not make the Electoral College unfair.  I think that
critique also applies to many, and perhaps all, of the other objections you
raised.

All the best,

Joseph
___________________
*Joseph E. La Rue*
cell: 480.737.1321
email: joseph.e.larue at gmail.com

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  This email may be protected by the attorney-client
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On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 10:42 AM Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu> wrote:

> If anyone else responds to this thread please use this (or another, more
> descriptive) subject line.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Richard Winger <richardwinger at yahoo.com>
> *Reply-To: *Richard Winger <richardwinger at yahoo.com>
> *Date: *Friday, January 24, 2020 at 9:41 AM
> *To: *Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu>, "Joseph E. La Rue" <
> joseph.e.larue at gmail.com>
> *Cc: *Election Law Listserv <law-election at uci.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: [EL] ELB News and Commentary 1/24/20
>
>
>
> It is not a myth that the US has unfair elections.
>
>
>
> What other country in the world holds a direct vote for president, and
> then seats the person who has fewer votes in the final round, instead of
> seating the person who gets the most votes?
>
>
>
> What other country in the world has a legislative chamber in which
> one-sixth or less of the voters can be represented by a majority of the
> members of that chamber?
>
>
>
> What other country holds general election debates for the top-most office
> but excludes all but the nominees of the two biggest parties?
>
>
>
> What other country has a law that says only members of the two largest
> parties are eligible to be appointed to a judicial office (Delaware law,
> which will soon b e reviewed by the US Supreme Court, has this
> characteristic).
>
>
>
> What other country has such difficult ballot access requirements that only
> the two major parties have been able to run a candidate for the national
> lower house of the legislative body in 77 years (Georgia law has this
> characteristic, and it was upheld last year by a US District Court).
>
>
>
> Richard Winger 415-922-9779 PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 24, 2020, 9:26:10 AM PST, Joseph E. La Rue <
> joseph.e.larue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I appreciate Rick's take on the possibility of an "Election Meltdown"
> after the 2020 presidential election.  I am confident everyone on the
> listserv joins me in hoping that won't happen.   But I want to thank Rick
> for his honesty in recognizing that both major parties and their candidates
> could have a meltdown.  Too often that possibility is attributed only to
> Trump and/or his most ardent supporters.  Thank you, Rick, for a fair
> assessment.  Now, let's all do our part to dispel the myth that our
> elections are not fair, and that there is widespread cheating.
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
> ___________________
> *Joseph E. La Rue*
>
> cell: 480.737.1321
> email: joseph.e.larue at gmail.com
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:  This email may be protected by the
> attorney-client privilege or the attorney work-product doctrine.  If you
> are not the intended recipient, please delete all copies of the
> transmission and notify the sender immediately.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 9:45 AM Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu> wrote:
>
> “The loser of November’s election may not concede. Their voters won’t,
> either.” <https://electionlawblog.org/?p=109146>
>
> Posted on January 24, 2020 8:37 am <https://electionlawblog.org/?p=109146>
>  by *Rick Hasen* <https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> I have written this commentary for the Washington Post Sunday Outlook
> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/the-loser-of-novembers-election-may-not-concede-their-voters-wont-either/2020/01/23/4d81be8c-3d6c-11ea-baca-eb7ace0a3455_story.html>,
> a preview of my book, Election Meltdown
> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0300248199/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=slatmaga-20&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=0300248199&linkId=69abbd9d274db52e081b6d392baf38c8>,
> out Feb. 4. It begins:
>
> *When the polls closed on Nov. 5, 2019, the initial count showed the
> governor of Kentucky, Republican Matt Bevins, losing to his Democratic
> challenger, Andy Beshear. But rather than concede that he fell short in
> what should have been an easy reelection, Bevins claimed
> <https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/11/matt-bevin-andy-beshear-trump-stolen-kentucky-election.html> that
> “irregularities” had muddled the result — producing no evidence to support
> his accusations. At first, some Kentucky legislative leaders appeared to
> back him, and some pointed to the legislature’s power to resolve an
> election dispute and choose the governor regardless of the vote. But Bevins
> was not popular even within his own party, and eventually, he had to
> concede when the local GOP did not go along with him.*
>
> *We could imagine a similar scenario this November: What would happen if
> President Trump had an early lead that evaporated as votes were counted,
> and then he refused to concede? The idea isn’t too far-fetched; Trump has
> raised it himself. Before the 2016 election, he wouldn’t agree
> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/20/donald-trump-says-he-will-accept-the-results-of-the-election-if-i-win/?tid=lk_inline_manual_2> to
> accept the results if he lost. After winning in the electoral college but
> losing the popular count by about 3 million votes, Trump claimed
> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/at-white-house-trump-tells-congressional-leaders-3-5-million-illegal-ballots-cost-him-the-popular-vote/?tid=lk_inline_manual_2> —
> with no evidence whatsoever — that at least 3 million fraudulent votes had
> been cast for his opponent, Hillary Clinton. He set up an “election
> integrity” commission headed by then-Kansas secretary of state Kris Kobach
> to try to prove that “voter fraud” is a major problem. But after the
> commission faced attacks from the left and the right for demanding state
> voter records with an apparent plan to use them to call for stricter
> registration rules, Trump disbanded it
> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-abolishes-controversial-commission-studying-voter-fraud/2018/01/03/665b1878-f0e2-11e7-b3bf-ab90a706e175_story.html?tid=lk_inline_manual_2>,
> with no work accomplished. In 2018, the president criticized elections
> in Florida <https://perma.cc/GT7Q-8MRE> and California
> <https://perma.cc/S7BK-VWFW>, where late-counted votes shifted toward
> Democrats, suggesting without evidence that there was foul play.*
>
> *It’s not just Trump who might not accept election results. Imagine that
> he wins in the electoral college, this time thanks to what Democrats
> believe is voter suppression in Florida. The Florida legislature and
> governor have already sought to stymie Amendment 4, a 2018 ballot
> initiative to restore voting rights to formerly incarcerated felons. When
> the state Supreme Court agreed
> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/florida-high-court-sides-with-governor-on-felon-voter-rights/2020/01/16/848f2d68-3882-11ea-a1ff-c48c1d59a4a1_story.html?tid=lk_inline_manual_3> that
> felons could not register to vote until paying all their outstanding fines,
> Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) praised the ruling and called voting a “privilege
> <https://twitter.com/GovRonDeSantis/status/1217867897906913282?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1217867897906913282&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F>,”
> rather than a right. Some Democrats have called
> <https://www.thecentersquare.com/florida/democrats-gillum-say-florida-poll-tax-on-felons-will-fuel/article_dca6e4ac-70fd-11e9-90ab-57f1557e168e.html> the
> new rules a “poll tax,” and a Florida public TV station concluded
> <https://www.wuft.org/news/2020/01/16/florida-supreme-court-sides-with-desantis-in-felon-voter-rights-case/> that
> “the implications of the bill passed by a majority-Republican legislature
> preventing former felons from voting could work to ensure Trump wins the
> 2020 presidential election.” During Trump’s impeachment trial this past
> week, Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) said
> <https://www.axios.com/schiff-trump-impeachment-election-a5162595-dea0-404d-b099-582ae7e51b78.html> “we
> cannot be assured that the vote will be fairly won” in November because of
> the allegations that Trump was trying to “cheat” by pressuring Ukraine to
> announce an investigation into Joe Biden and his family.*
>
> *External forces could cause an election meltdown, too. A recent NPR-News
> Hour-Marist poll
> <https://www.npr.org/2020/01/21/797101409/npr-poll-majority-of-americans-believe-trump-encourages-election-interference?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=storiesfromnpr> found
> that “almost 4 in 10 Americans . . . believe it is likely another country
> will tamper with the votes cast in 2020 in order to change the result.”
> What if Russians hack into Detroit’s power grid and knock out electricity
> on Election Day, seriously depressing turnout — and Trump wins the
> electoral college because he carries Michigan? Most states do not have
> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-elections-are-wide-open-for-a-constitutional-crisis/2018/10/26/317cb7e0-d86a-11e8-83a2-d1c3da28d6b6_story.html?tid=lk_inline_manual_6> a
> Plan B to deal with a terrorist attack or natural disaster affecting part
> of a presidential election.*
>
> [image: Share]
> <https://www.addtoany.com/share#url=https%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D109146&title=%E2%80%9CThe%20loser%20of%20November%E2%80%99s%20election%20may%20not%20concede.%20Their%20voters%20won%E2%80%99t%2C%20either.%E2%80%9D>
>
> Posted in Election Meltdown <https://electionlawblog.org/?cat=127>
>
>
>
>
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