[EL] Difference between absentee and all mail in balloting

[Pam Fessler]

Just noting, on FL secretary of state’s office FAQs….they don’t call it an “absentee” ballot.
“How to Request a Vote-by-Mail Ballot”

From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> On Behalf Of James Bopp Jr
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:18 PM
To: SVladeck at law.utexas.edu; rhasen at law.uci.edu; law-election at uci.edu
Subject: Re: [EL] Difference between absentee and all mail in balloting

Yes, good point.

The Pennsylvania case you cite involved a challenge to election official putting ballot collecting stations all over the place, beyond what is authorized by Penn law.  Both absentee ballots and mail in ballots are placed in these containers.  So the distinction I am making, re applications being required, is not pertinent to the challenge they are making.  And how voters got a ballot to "mail in" was also not pertinent to the challenge the Reps in Penn were making so they inartfully said that.

My point is not about mailing the ballot in but the whole scheme, and they are different, I think substantially, because of the application.  Jim

In a message dated 7/15/2020 4:06:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time, SVladeck at law.utexas.edu<mailto:SVladeck at law.utexas.edu> writes:


No one is suggesting otherwise. I’m merely pointing out that it’s not just “the MSM and the Democrats” who say there’s no difference.



From: James Bopp Jr <jboppjr at aol.com<mailto:jboppjr at aol.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:04 PM
To: Vladeck, Stephen I <SVladeck at law.utexas.edu<mailto:SVladeck at law.utexas.edu>>; rhasen at law.uci.edu<mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>; law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Difference between absentee and all mail in balloting



Thank goodness I still get to think for myself.  Jim Bopp

In a message dated 7/15/2020 3:57:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time, SVladeck at law.utexas.edu<mailto:SVladeck at law.utexas.edu> writes:



For what it’s worth, the Trump campaign has itself recently argued in court that there’s no difference, explaining that “[i]n general use, however, the terms ‘mail-in’ and ‘absentee’ are used interchangeably to discuss the use of the United States Postal Service to deliver ballots to and from electors.”



See footnote 1: https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump-pa.pdf<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump-pa.pdf__;!!Iwwt!EPKgrJbdkzn44sT2eWPM0flg4rudUjsk0G2vSMW8TcqpVTJXNC5UcJyGGMvu$>



From: Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu<mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>> On Behalf Of James Bopp Jr
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:45 PM
To: rhasen at law.uci.edu<mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>; law-election at uci.edu<mailto:law-election at uci.edu>
Subject: [EL] Difference between absentee and all mail in balloting



I just don't understand why the MSM and the Democrats say " There’s no difference between mail-in voting and absentee ballot voting. "

The big and obvious difference is that, in absentee balloting, the registered voter must apply for the ballot. This contemporaneous application requirement serves many anti-voter fraud purposes.  By requiring an application, the vote must, usually, swear that they are alive, their current address. and that they are still eligible to vote.  Furthermore, this creates an audit trail that is examined by election officials to compare the applications with the subsequent mail in ballot.  This provides substantial protections.



All mail in balloting skips the application and just mails ballots to all voters on voter registration rolls, usually those on the "active" registration roll.  Of course there are two big problems here, first, we lose the benefits of the application, and second, ballots are mailed to many voters who are dead, moved or ineligible, flooding the state with ballots for the unscrupulous to scoop up and vote.



And the Democrats want to mail ballots to those on the "ineligible" registration list.  These are people who have not voted in the last 2 elections and election officials have mailed them a post card that was returned as undeliverable. So more ballots are flooding the state -- sent to people we already know are not there.



Now, it may be that one would like to argue over whether an application is helpful to prevent voter fraud or whether it is prudent to send ballots to addresses of voters we already know are not there, but surely it is indefensible, but maybe from the Democrats perspective useful, to say there is not difference between the two.  Jim Bopp



In a message dated 7/15/2020 11:29:32 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rhasen at law.uci.edu<mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu> writes:



“Florida GOP doctors Trump tweet to solve mail-in voting problem”<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/electionlawblog.org/?p=113106__;!!Iwwt!EPKgrJbdkzn44sT2eWPM0flg4rudUjsk0G2vSMW8TcqpVTJXNC5UcETbMWzd$>

Posted on July 15, 2020 8:01 am<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/electionlawblog.org/?p=113106__;!!Iwwt!EPKgrJbdkzn44sT2eWPM0flg4rudUjsk0G2vSMW8TcqpVTJXNC5UcETbMWzd$> by Rick Hasen<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/electionlawblog.org/?author=3__;!!Iwwt!EPKgrJbdkzn44sT2eWPM0flg4rudUjsk0G2vSMW8TcqpVTJXNC5UcLRA2DlW$>

Politico:<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.politico.com/news/2020/07/15/florida-mail-in-voting-trump-362519__;!!Iwwt!EPKgrJbdkzn44sT2eWPM0flg4rudUjsk0G2vSMW8TcqpVTJXNC5UcEFWgu98$>

President Donald Trump’s harsh rhetoric against mail-in voting is causing a big problem for Florida Republicans, who once dominated the practice here.

So the state GOP came up with a solution: They doctored one of Trump’s tweets on the issue to remove the stigma.

In a mass-solicitation designed to boost flagging interest in registering to vote by mail, the Republican Party of Florida featured a Trump tweet from June 28 that praised absentee ballots but that had his opposition to mail-in voting strategically edited out.

“Absentee Ballots are fine. A person has to go through a process to get and use them,” Trump said in the tweet<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1277429217190428673__;!!Iwwt!EPKgrJbdkzn44sT2eWPM0flg4rudUjsk0G2vSMW8TcqpVTJXNC5UcLk7J5yl$>. The rest of the quote was blurred out: “Mail-In Voting, on the other hand, will lead to the most corrupt Election is USA history. Bad things happen with Mail-Ins. Just look at Special Election in Patterson, N.J. 19% of Ballots a FRAUD.”

There’s no difference between mail-in voting and absentee ballot voting. Trump is claiming a distinction that does not exist, all the while exaggerating<https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/885074932/n-j-election-fraud-case-draws-a-trump-tweet-but-suggests-safeguards-are-working> the fraud risks, prevalence and effects of voting by mail.
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