Subject: RE: criminal disenfranchisement
From: "Volokh, Eugene" <VOLOKH@law.ucla.edu>
Date: 2/10/2005, 3:28 PM
To: election-law@majordomo.lls.edu

	My concern isn't that ex-felons might vote to change our laws.
There's nothing wrong with their voting to change our laws.

	Rather, it's that they'll cast votes that are bad for society,
because they tend to be people with bad moral judgment.  Would you elect
a convicted rapist or robber to the legislature?  Probably not, I
suspect, at least unless he's behaved very well for many years since his
conviction.  Why not?  Not just because he, as a legislator, might vote
to change our laws.  Rather, it's because he might cast votes that are
bad for society, because he's a person who has shown himself to have bad
moral judgment.  (Of course, you may well make the decision about the
legislator on a case-by-case basis, as a voter; but while that's
possible for screening out legislators who have done bad things, it's
not possible for screening out voters.)

	The age analogy is likewise helpful here, too.  Why wouldn't we
want 13-year-olds to vote?  Not because they'll vote to change our laws,
but again because they'll cast votes that are bad for society, because
they tend to be people with immature moral (and practical) judgment.
The cause of our lack of trust for their judgment is different from the
cause of our lack of trust in the judgment of ex-felons.  But in both
instances, we don't want to give people with untrustworthy moral
judgment a role in governing us.

	Now of course some people may reveal their bad moral judgment in
other ways, for instance by expressing support for racism or Communism
or what have you.  But the Free Speech Clause -- and the quite sound
political theory underlying that clause -- rightly requires us not to
discriminate against these people because of their viewpoints, even
though letting them vote may well be bad for society.  Fortunately,
nothing in the Constitution, or in my view in sound political theory
(some of which we've touched on in these threads), bars us from
discriminating against people because of their past felony convictions.

	Eugene

Alec Ewald writes:

We have been hearing the "trust" argument repeatedly here.  
The trust argument is hollow: what exactly is it that we are 
concerned the untrustworthy would *do* with their ballots?  
Fraud was one argument, but voting is now vastly more secure 
than it was in the nineteenth century, and there has never 
been any showing that people convicted of crime are more 
likely or able to commit fraud than others.  (The 
incapacitative rationale here justifies disfranchising those 
convicted of election crimes.)  I have come to believe that 
the "untrustworthy" argument is simply a vague form of the 
"subversive voting" claim, which holds that people convicted 
of crime are rightly barred from voting because they might 
vote to change our laws.  That, too, used to be a perfectly 
acceptable part of American suffrage thinking, but it sure 
isn't any more.  Arguments which link the notion of "trust" 
with statements about voters' "power" over each other seem to 
emphasize the subversion fear, too, but maybe that is not how 
it is meant.

Anybody can say that their preferred policy will strengthen 
our democracy or prevent crime, but Americans today are 
pretty practical when it comes to justifying restrictions.  
If I could be shown *how* barring convicts from the polls 
would either strengthen our democracy or prevent crime, I 
might well support it.  Instead, the more convincing evidence 
suggests that at least in a few cases, engagement with 
politics might help reduce recidivism -- and preventing just 
one is enough.

Finally, the "third way" policy is right there for the 
taking: compulsory inmate voting, as a proud statement of 
faith in the transformative power of suffrage and the robust 
character of our elections, and a genuine interest in using 
the power of the state to help build the character of those 
under criminal supervision.

Alec

Alec Ewald, Ph.D.
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Political Science
Union College

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-election-law_gl@majordomo.lls.edu
[mailto:owner-election-law_gl@majordomo.lls.edu]On Behalf Of 
Volokh, Eugene
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 2:27 PM
To: election-law@majordomo.lls.edu
Subject: RE: NY Times and Felons


	A few thoughts:  (1)  I'm not sure it's particularly 
odd that felons may not vote, but may be elected to office.  
We as voters get to choose whom we elect to office; in most 
jurisdictions, felons won't get elected, and when they are 
elected, it will usually be because the voters got a chance 
to focus on the candidate's felony record, and concluded that 
he's trustworthy despite that.  With felon *voters*, we as 
fellow voters don't get the chance to screen them.  Instead, 
the screening is done through the automatic disqualification 
process, followed in most states by a means of restoring 
constitutional rights. So if we're hesitant to let felons 
have a role in governing us, it makes sense that we'd want an 
automatic disqualification for felon-voters, but could live 
with disqualification-by-the-voters-voting-against for 
felon-candidates.

	I also suspect that in many states, felons are indeed 
disqualified from holding state office, though I can't speak 
to that; the oddity that Steve Mulroy describes may be a 
function of the 5-4 opinion in U.S. Term Limits more than of 
some deliberate consensus that felons should be free to run 
for office.

	(2)  I appreciate Steve Mulroy's consistency on the 
felon self-defense vs. felon voting question, and perhaps 
he's right that many felons needn't be stripped of gun 
rights.  But my point wasn't that all rights necessarily need 
to be treated exactly the same way -- perhaps felons should 
be stripped of self-defense rights but not voting rights, or 
vice versa.

	Rather, it was that sometimes people can indeed forfeit 
constitutional rights because of their bad conduct.  When the 
right is simply a right to try to persuade people, as with 
petitions, letters to congressmen, and so on, there's not 
much reason for stripping the person of that right.  But when 
the right is a right to actually exert power over who gets 
elected -- which voting is -- people may reasonably conclude 
that felons lose this right by their bad conduct, which shows 
that they likely can't be trusted with this power.

	Eugene

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-election-law_gl@majordomo.lls.edu
[mailto:owner-election-law_gl@majordomo.lls.edu] On Behalf Of 
Steven Mulroy
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:34 AM
Cc: election-law@majordomo.lls.edu
Subject: Re: NY Times and Felons



Some comments in reply to Eugene Volokh's (interesting,
useful) points 
about felon disenfranchisement:

 Isn't it the case that anyone who satisfies the requirements for
federal elected office set out in the Constitution can be 
elected, and 
that we can't exclude convicted felons who otherwise qualify? 
  It seems 
odd that a convicted felon would have a constitutional right to 
literally be one of our "governors" by being elected to 
federal office, 
but excluded from being a more indirect, metaphorical "governor" by 
voting in the same election in which he runs for office.  I 
know that 
the same situation applies to many state offices:  there are 
historical 
examples of people running for office from jail, even serving 
from jail, 
are there not? 

 Also, following up on Eugene's analogy to the 2nd Amendment,
what about 
the 1st Amendment? Would we say that ex-felons are 
disqualified from 
writing their congressmen, petitioning their government for 
redress of 
grievances, making campaign contributions, serving as elected 
delegates 
to their party's convention, or otherwise participating in the 
"government" of the people? I don't think we COULD say it, could we?

I think the answer to all these questions is that all 
citizens have a
right to contribute to the government of the people 
regardless of their 
criminal past.  Taking away 1st Am, 2nd Am, voting rights, or other 
rights isn't justified absent some compelling interest, and no 
criminological or penological interest is served by doing 
it.  Except 
possibly for where the ex-felon committed a crime with a gun or was 
otherwise dangerous, I don't see an argument for taking away 
the 2nd Am 
right either.  Criminal laws are probably too broad right 
now on that 
score.  Similarly, except possibly for crimes involving 
election fraud, 
I don't see an argument for taking away voting rights. 

(Indeed, it might actually be salutary to have ex-felons' input re:
public policy questions on prison conditions, the criminal justice 
system, or even the wisdom of substantive criminal laws.  I for one 
would like to hear from them re: the sentencing disparity 
between powder 
cocaine and crack.)