Subject: Re: RE: Evidence Of Voter Fraud
From: Rick Hasen
Date: 4/21/2005, 4:13 PM
To: soverton@law.gwu.edu
CC: Ari Weisbard <aweisbard@demos-usa.org>, election-law <election-law@majordomo.lls.edu>

there is some evidence about what voters believe regarding who is 
committing fraud.  From a Rasmussen reports pre-election poll, "59%
Worried About 2004 Election Debacle" (at 
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Voter%20Fraud%20Oct%2019.htm):
"Most Republicans believe that voting problems are most likely to 
result from people who are not eligible to vote being allowed to vote. 
Most Democrats say the most likely problem is that people who should be 
allowed to vote will be denied the right to do so."

----- Original Message -----
From: Spencer Overton <soverton@law.gwu.edu>
Date: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:59 pm
Subject: Re: RE: Evidence Of Voter Fraud


This is my response to Rick Hasen's email.

Spencer

HASEN QUOTING ALVAREZ & ANSOLABEHERE:  "Fraud is hard to detect 
and to measure. It may involve only enough ballots to win an 
election, and there may be no paper trail that would allow 
election officials to determine what exactly occurred."

RESPONSE:  I understand that there is no missing inventory to 
quantify fraud, as in the shoplifting context.  But this isn't as 
nebulous as measuring "corruption" in the campaign finance 
context.  We do have a list of names and addresses of voters who 
allegedly voted.  Has anyone ever attempted to follow up with a 
random sampling of these individuals to determine what percentage 
actually failed to go to the polls?

HASEN:  "Beyond anecdotal studies, there have been some recent 
newspaper studies of double voting by voters living in two states. 
(For citations to those newspaper studies, and more discussion 
about the fraud issues, seee the text accompanying footnotes 113-
116 of my Beyond the Margin of Litigation draft posted at: 
http://ssrn.com/abstract=698201)." 

RESPONSE:  Hasen's proposal would address the problem of double 
voting.  A standard photo ID requirement would not.

HASEN:  "But we also know that a large number of voters believe 
that there is a great deal of fraud in elections. (see pages 7-10 
of my article for some rather stark statistics in this regard)."

RESPONSE:  It is not clear that these voters believe that the 
fraud stems from fellow voters rather than election 
administrators.  

HASEN:  "It doesn't help to alleviate concerns about vote fraud by 
raising fears about vote suppression."

RESPONSE:  I agree.  Making a serious effort to study the extent 
of voter fraud would help us better understand the significance of 
voter fraud, and either substantiate or alleviate fears.   

HASEN:  "That's why a part of my proposed solution for falling 
voter confidence is government issued voter i.d. with biometric 
information (like fingerprints).  If you show up with your finger, 
you don't need an i.d. card.  And I'd couple it with universal 
voter registration accomplished by the government."

RESPONSE:  The actual percentage of fraud is less important with 
Hasen's proposal because he addresses access concerns through 
universal registration and providing an option to vote for those 
who fail to bring their ID to the polls (although the ACLU may 
have privacy concerns).  Standard photo ID requirements without an 
affidavit exception often do not mitigate access problems, and 
thus the actual percentage of voter fraud is critical in order to 
do a cost/benefit analysis of these proposals.   




Professor Spencer Overton
The George Washington University Law School
2000 H Street, NW, Washington, DC 20052 
(202)994-9794
soverton@law.gwu.edu 
http://www.law.gwu.edu/facweb/soverton/

THE DONOR CLASS (arguing that campaign reforms should encourage 
candidates to raise the bulk of their funds from smaller 
contributors) available at . . . 
http://ssrn.com/abstract=569021



---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Rick Hasen <Rick.Hasen@lls.edu>
Date:  Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:50:11 -0700

Steve Ansolabehere and Mike Alvarez made the following 
observations in 
a 2002 Demos report: "“Voter fraud is a persistent concern of 
those who 
run elections. Fraud is hard to detect and to measure. It may 
involve 
only enough ballots to win an election, and there may be no paper 
trail 
that would allow election officials to determine what exactly  
occurred.” R. Michael Alvarez & Stephen Ansolabehere, California 
Votes: 
The Promise of Election Day Registration 14 (2002), available at: 
<http://www.demosusa. org/pubs/california_votes.pdf> (last 
visited Feb. 
16, 2005).

But the difficulty of proving actual fraud doesn't mean it 
doesn't 
exist. Beyond anecdotal studies, there have been some recent 
newpaper 
studies of double voting by voters living in two states.  (For 
citations to those newspaper studies, and more discussion about 
the 
fraud issues, seee the text accompanying footnotes 113-116 of my 
Beyond 
the Margin of Litigation draft posted at: 
http://ssrn.com/abstract=698201).

The bottom line: we know some fraud happens but we don't know how 
much 
of it there is.  But we also know that a large number of voters 
believe 
that there is a great deal of fraud in elections. (see pages 7-10 
of my 
article for some rather stark statistics in this regard).

Voter i.d. can help to alleviate concerns about fraudulent 
voting and 
help restore some voter confidence in the process.  The problem 
with 
voter i.d. alone is that while it helps some voters with 
confidence, it 
can suppress the votes of others, particularly the poor and 
mobile, who 
will have greater difficulty providing i.d.  It doesn't help to 
alleviate concerns about vote fraud by raising fears about vote 
suppression. 

That's why a part of my proposed solution for falling voter 
confidence 
is government issued voter i.d. with biometric information (like 
fingerprints).  If you show up with your finger, you don't need 
an i.d. 
card.  And I'd couple it with universal voter registration 
accomplished 
by the government.  These two items alone could reduce as much as 
60% 
of the litigation surrounding our elections and do much to 
restore 
confidence in our elections.  

One other argument that is made against voter i.d. is that it 
does 
nothing to stop fraud by election officials.  That's right.  We 
need 
protection from that as well, as well as the appearance of bias 
by 
elected officials.  For that reason, at the least all state chief 
elections officers should abide by the IDEA Code of Conduct, and 
refrain from participating in any political activities (like 
serving as 
a chair of a presidential candidate's state committee).  And 
ideally, 
we should move to nonpartisan administration of elections, with 
checks 
to make sure that no fraud happens at the level of election 
officials.>
Rick



----- Original Message -----
From: Ari Weisbard <aweisbard@demos-usa.org>
Date: Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:38 pm
Subject: RE: Evidence Of Voter Fraud

Demos did a fairly exhaustive search to document such cases in 
2003. You can find it at:

http://www.demos-usa.org/pub111.cfm

There has been very little systematic evidence of any 
widespread 
individual voter fraud (as opposed to election official, 
campaign 
or machine fraud). I also have found little other systematic 
study 
of the issue.

--
Ari Weisbard
Policy Analyst
Demos:  A Network for Ideas & Action
220 5th Avenue, 5th Floor
New York, NY  10001
Phone:  212-419-8774
FAX:     212-633-2015
Email:  aweisbard@demos-usa.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Mulroy [mailto:smulroy@memphis.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:09 PM
Cc: election-law
Subject: Evidence Of Voter Fraud



I have been reading about the GOP proposals for photo ID 
requirements 
for all voters, and also calls for a national registration ID 
(with 
photos and fingerprints, according to some accounts).  I was 
wondering 
who has data quantifying the actual amount of voter fraud (as 
opposed to 
fraud by voting officials) which has occurred in recent years.  
I 
recall 
asking this in the past and not getting anything specific; is 
there new 
evidence? SJM


 











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