Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
From: Antoine Yoshinaka
Date: 10/19/2010, 9:41 PM
To: Rick Hasen
CC: 'Election Law' <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>
Reply-to:
"antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu"

This is getting somewhat off-topic (apologies for that), but it's interesting that in some countries, a "blank vote" is seen as a conscious choice by voters, akin to Nevada's NOTA (e.g., France's "vote blanc"), and qualitatively different from a spoiled ballot.  In many instances (e.g., the French Communists in 1969, or more recently Le Pen in 1995 and 2007), candidates have urged their supporters either to stay home or come to the polls and cast a blank vote instead of supporting one of the remaining candidates.

So on this point, the evidence contradicts the assertion that no one would find a reason to show up and vote NOTA on all elections on the ballot.  Empirically we find many voters in France, who, for whatever reason, show up at the polls and intentionally cast a blank vote for the only election or referendum on the ballot.  This is the case even in countries without compulsory voting (e.g., France).  Interestingly there is a movement to recognize blank votes as a separate category in the vote tabulations (a position espoused by the aptly-named Parti Blanc).
--------------------
Antoine Yoshinaka
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Political Science
2217 Watkins Hall
University of California, Riverside
Riverside, CA 92521
Tel:(951)827-4688
Fax:(951)827-3933
Email: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu
Website: http://politicalscience.ucr.edu/people/faculty/yoshinaka/index.html


---- Original message ----
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:12:00 -0700
From: Rick Hasen <rick.hasen@lls.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
To: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu
Cc: Jeff Patch <jpatch@campaignfreedom.org>, "'Election Law'" <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>

  Very interesting question on the NOTA option.  I
  think Nevada is the only state with such an
  option---perhaps there are others.  I'm not a fan of
  NOTA (except in a system of compulsory voting),
  because it is the equivalent of suppressing turnout
  in some races.  (Presumably not in all races, as no
  one would have a reason to show up at the polls and
  vote NOTA in all races.)

  I've flirted with the idea of supporting compulsory
  voting laws, because I view voting  as a
  distribution of power among political equals, and
  when turnout is not just generally suppressed, but
  suppressed to skew results in demographic ways
  (e.g., targeted at Latinos), it affects the
  allocation of political power.  So I think I object
  most to the depression of turnout targeted at
  particular groups, even under a NOTA system.  That
  is, if the Latinos for Reform ad was cast as "Vote
  NOTA," I think I'd have the same objections.

  But these are very tentative thoughts and I'd have
  to consider it much more closely.

  On 10/19/2010 8:53 PM, Antoine Yoshinaka wrote:

I don't usually contribute to the debates on the list, but I always find these discussions very enlightening.

Rick (and others): since this is Nevada and voters have an option of voting for "none of the above," would you find it objectionable if a group such as LFR (but any group, really) were to urge voters to vote for "none of the above"?  While this would not "depress turnout," my understanding of the way votes are counted in NV is that this would be functionally equivalent to staying home in terms of ascertaining the winner of the election.  Would the objections raised in this case be valid?

Or what if, in a two-round election, some group is urging the supporters of one of the candidates eliminated in the first round to stay home instead of voting for either of the top two remaining candidates?  My understanding is that this routinely happens among supporters of fringe parties around the world.

I guess my question boils down to this: is the objection about depressing turnout per se, or rather about the tactic used to depress turnout and/or the group targeted by the ad?

Cheers,

Antoine
--------------------
Antoine Yoshinaka
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Political Science
2217 Watkins Hall
University of California, Riverside
Riverside, CA 92521
Tel:(951)827-4688
Fax:(951)827-3933
Email: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu
Website: http://politicalscience.ucr.edu/people/faculty/yoshinaka/index.html


---- Original message ----

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 19:51:05 -0700
From: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu (on behalf of Rick Hasen <rick.hasen@lls.edu>)
Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
To: Jeff Patch <jpatch@campaignfreedom.org>
Cc: "'Election Law'" <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>

  I don't have time for a full reply now.  But let me
  confirm that yes, indeed, I meant astounding in a
  decidedly negative way.  I'd have to go back to
  look, but I believe that every state's voting law
  makes it illegal to pay people not to vote.  That
  law seems to reflect a broad social consensus
  against paying to suppress turnout.  (In contrast,
  state laws are mixed about payment for turnout.)

  Just like it is illegal to pay people not to vote,
  it seems objectionable to urge people not to do
  so---and even worse when it is targeted at a
  particular group of people.
   As far as whether someone of a particular race or
  ethnicity could be biased against that very same
  race or ethnicity, certainly that's the case with
  some people.

  I think you are on more solid ground when you say
  that this ad is not likely to sway many voters not
  to vote.  But that certainly seems its intent.
  (That, or getting publicity for the group or person
  running the ad.)

  On 10/19/2010 6:25 PM, Jeff Patch wrote:

    Rick refers to the message of the rejected Latinos
    for Reform ad, which urges Hispanics to stay home
    in November in protest of the Democrats' lack of
    action on immigration reform, as "astounding."



    My interpretation of his comments is that he
    perceives this proposed ad campaign as
    "astounding" in a decidedly negative way, akin to
    vote suppression by passing out flyers in an
    African American neighborhood with the wrong
    Election Day listed. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I got
    that impression from the link he selected, which
    referred to the ad as an effort to "suppress the
    vote of various racial minorities." Sen. Majority
    Leader Harry Reid has also referred to the ad as
    "an example of "Hispanic voter suppression." A Las
    Vegas-based Hispanic group claimed that "[t]hey
    are trying to take away our privileged right to
    vote through scare tactics and fear mongering."



    Univision, a private business, has every right to
    decline to air the ad, despite its dominant
    position in reaching Hispanic audience. A few
    points/questions, though:



    (1) The group is run by prominent Hispanic
    conservatives who have been involved in
    immigration reform for years. It's pretty hard to
    see some sort of a racist motive here, no?



    (2) The premise of this ad as a voter suppression
    tool seems-like most efforts to characterize
    independent ads as somehow corrupting or
    nefarious-to be that Latino voters are so gullible
    that they can be lured by the ad's Siren call into
    not voting.



    There's certainly no intent on the part of the
    ad's critics to imply that Latinos cannot decide
    for themselves how to vote, but the suggestion
    that the ad is reprehensible implies that people
    are too dim to decide political matters on their
    own when faced with controversial-or even
    misleading-advertising. That strikes me as pretty
    condescending toward the democratic process.



    (3) Removing a potential racial motive, this
    tactic  seems perfectly legitimate. I'm a
    libertarian. In 2008 I did not vote, partly
    because of an absentee ballot snafu. But I ended
    up not remedying the mix-up because I was
    frustrated with McCain's general election campaign
    even after spending three months volunteering for
    the primary campaign in various states. As a
    rational person, I'm aware my vote didn't matter,
    but I don't understand why it's illegitimate for a
    group to urge people to not vote if a political
    party or candidate fails to act on their issues.



    Perhaps this ad would have been less controversial
    if it urged Hispanics to write-in someone or vote
    third party, but that's a bit more of a
    complicated message. But, I'm wondering if Rick
    would feel the same way if, in 2012, NORML ran ads
    in California asking marijuana users not to vote
    because no Democrats supported Prop. 19-or is
    there something specifically objectionable about
    an ad targeting a certain ethnic constituency of
    voters?



    Jeff Patch



    From: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu
    [mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu] On
    Behalf Of Rick Hasen
    Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 12:11 AM
    To: Election Law
    Subject: [EL] Electionlawblog news and commentary
    10/19/10

October 18, 2010

 "Don't Vote This November"

    That's the astounding message of an ad from
    "Latinos for Reform." Here's an NPR story on the
    group from 2008. Here's the group's press release
    about the new ad. The most recent filing of this
    527 organization is not illuminating. Here's some
    2008 financial information.

    Posted by Rick Hasen at 09:01 PM



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  --
  Rick Hasen
  William H. Hannon Distinguished Professor of Law
  Loyola Law School
  919 Albany Street
  Los Angeles, CA 90015-1211
  (213)736-1466
  (213)380-3769 - fax
  rick.hasen@lls.edu
  http://www.lls.edu/academics/faculty/hasen.html
  http://electionlawblog.org
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