Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
From: Joseph Lorenzo Hall
Date: 10/20/2010, 11:47 AM
To: Kbrace
CC: "election-law@mailman.lls.edu" <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>

Also, there is a critical type of error that residual vote metrics do
not take into account: the "wrong choice" error, where a voter intends
to vote for one choice but mistakenly chooses something else and does
not notice or correct it. Usability researcher and psychology
professor Mike Byrne's group (part of our NSF ACCURATE center) has
completed a series of lab user studies that indicate this is a large
source of error and, I think, one that varies considerably across.
odes of voting... I'm not sure where this is published, but it should
appear soon and I'll send a note (it may even be ELJ, for all I know).
best, Joe

On Wednesday, October 20, 2010, Kbrace <kbrace@aol.com> wrote:




Readers should note that the NOTA option does not eliminate the problem of residual votes / Drop-off (my term) / or undervotes (really only part of the residual vote problem since overvotes make up most of the other part).  Several years ago we looked into this issue in Nevada and found that for the offices where NOTA is an option on the ballot, the residual vote levels were comparable to what we found in other parts of the nation, depending upon the voting equipment.  So NOTA doesn't really offer voters a way to clear up the uncertainty in voting data, it's just another choice on the ballot.

The real way to get overall better understanding of the returns is for all states and local governments to report the total number of people who participated in the election (903 counties, including all of Arkansas, failed to do this in 2004, instead reporting the total number of votes cast for all candidates for President), along with the total number of overvotes and undervotes for each office or contest on the ballot.  (sorry, my soap box).

Kim Brace
Election Data Services, Inc.
6171 Emerywood Ct
Manassas, VA 20112-3078
(202) 789-2004 or (703) 580-7267
Fax: 703-580-6258
Cell: 202-607-5857
KBrace@aol.com or KBrace@electiondataservices.com
www.electiondataservices.com <http://www.electiondataservices.com/>

NOTE: WE'VE MOVED: Please update your records.
============================================================


In a message dated 10/20/10 13:33:03 Eastern Daylight Time, jerald.lentini@yahoo.com writes:








As electronic ballots become more common, a NOTA option--especially if coupled with a requirement to make a selection in each race--might prove to be a good way to eliminate the problem of accidental undervotes.


I don't know if the voter education process in Nevada is sufficient to let voters know that NOTA is not capable of winning, and administrators should certainly try to inform people of that fact and prevent confusion (though, after 35 years, one would hope they'd have already figured it out).  But noting where a voter conscientiously has withheld her vote from the candidates listed on the ballot helps prevent situations like the 2006 recount debacle in Florida's 13th CD.  It seems better on the whole to have clear evidence of the undervoter's intent to withhold her vote from the candidates.


-JR Lentini



From: John Tanner <john.k.tanner@gmail.com>
To: jboppjr@aol.com
Cc: election-law@mailman.lls.edu
Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 11:51:18 AM
Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?

I have no idea what voters think, but if NOTA wins (presumably where
both major nominees are struck by scandal or incapacity), none of the
rejected candidates should hold office or, for that matter, be
eligible for a second round that should be held promptly to find
someone the voters can stomach.  Better to drop  the NOTA option

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:32 AM,  <jboppjr@aol.com> wrote:
This seems troubling to me and I wonder what others think. I assume voters
think that by voting NOTA and it wins, then no one in fact would be
elected.  This is also what one would assume by just the plain language of
it.  Isn't this at least misleading and even a fraud on the voter?  Jim Bopp



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael McDonald <mmcdon@gmu.edu>
To: 'Election Law' <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>
Sent: Wed, Oct 20, 2010 10:16 am
Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?


 The highest vote getting candidate wins.
============
Dr. Michael P. McDonald
Associate Professor, George Mason University
Non-Resident Senior Fellow, Brookings Institution
                             Mailing address:
(o) 703-993-4191             George Mason University
(f) 703-993-1399             Dept. of Public and International Affairs
mmcdon@gmu.edu               4400 University Drive - 3F4
http://elections.gmu.edu     <http://elections.gmu.edu%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0> Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
-----Original Message-----
From: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu
[mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu] On Behalf Of
john.k.tanner@gmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 8:55 AM
To: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu; Scarberry, Mark; Rick Hasen
Cc: Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
In Nevada, what happens if NOTA wins a plurality or majority?
Sent from my Verizon Wir
 eless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Antoine Yoshinaka <antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu>
Sender: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 23:06:30
To: Scarberry, Mark<Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>; Rick
Hasen<rick.hasen@lls.edu>
Reply-To: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu
Cc: Election Law<election-law@mailman.lls.edu><
 BR>> Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
I think Annabelle Lever makes the point, in her recent article in the
British Journal of Political Science (linked by Rick a few weeks ago), that
no country compels voters to cast a *valid* vote--only turning out to vote
is compulsory in countries such as Australia, Belgium, Brazil, etc.
In countries with both compulsory voting and some form of electronic voting
(e.g., Belgium, Brazil), there is an option to cast a recorded blank vote.
In the recent presidential election in Brazil, for instance, about 3% of
voters cast a blank vote.
--------------------
Antoine Yoshinaka
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Political Science
2217 Watkins Hall
University of California, Riverside
Riverside, CA 92521
Tel:(951)827-4688
Fax:(951)827-3933
Email: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu <antoine.yoshi+naka@ucr.edu>
Website: http://politicalscience.ucr.edu/people/faculty/yoshinaka/index.html
---- Original message ----
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:28:17 -0700
From: "Scarberry, Mark" <Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>
Subject: RE: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
To: <antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu>, "Rick Hasen" <rick.hasen@lls.edu>
Cc: "Election Law" <electio
 n-law@mailman.lls.edu <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>>

I think it's pernicious to urge members of an ethnic group not to vote, at
least without providing an argument that makes at least some small amount of
sense (such as, "none of the parties care about Latino concerns, so send a
message by not voting").

I wonder whether, in countries where voting is compulsory (Australia?
___?), a voter is permitted to cast a blank ballot. Or is the point that the
voter must make a choice among the candidates?

Mark Scarberry
Pepperdine

________________________________

From: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu on behalf of Antoine Yoshinaka
Sent: Tue 10/19/2010 9:41 PM
To: Rick Hasen
Cc: 'Election Law'
&gt
 ;>Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?



This is getting somewhat off-topic (apologies for that), but it's
interesting that in some countries, a "blank vote" is seen as a conscious
choice by voters, akin to Nevada's NOTA (e.g., France's "vote blanc"), and
qualitatively different from a spoiled ballot.  In many instances (e.g., the
French Communists in 1969, or more recently Le Pen in 1995 and 2007),
candidates have urged their supporters either to stay home or come to the
polls and cast a blank vote instead of supporting one of the remaining
candidates.

So on this point, the evidence contradicts the assertion that no one would
find a reason to show up and vote NOTA on all elections on the ballot.
Empirically we find many voters in France, who, for whatever reason, show up
at the polls and inte
 ntionally cast a blank vote for the only election or
referendum on the ballot.  This is the case even in countries without
compulsory voting (e.g., France).  Interestingly there is a movement to
recognize blank votes as a separate category in the vote tabulations (a
position espoused by the aptly-named Parti Blanc).
--------------------
Antoine Yoshinaka
Assistant Professor
Dept. of Political Science
2217 Watkins Hall
University of California, Riverside
Riverside, CA 92521
Tel:(951)827-4688
Fax:(951)827-3933
Email: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu
Website:
http://politicalscience.ucr.edu/people/faculty/yoshinaka/index.html
&
 gt;

---- Original message ----
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 21:12:00 -0700
From: Rick Hasen <rick.hasen@lls.edu>
Subject: Re: [EL] Latinos for Voter Suppression of Other Latinos?
To: antoine.yoshinaka@ucr.edu
Cc: Jeff Patch <jpatch@campaignfreedom.org>, "'Election Law'"
<election-law@mailman.lls.edu>

 Very interesting question on the NOTA option.  I
 think Nevada is the only state with such an
 option---perhaps there are others.&
 nbsp; I'm not a fan of
 NOTA (except in a system of compulsory voting),
 because it is the equivalent of suppressing turnout
 in some races.  (Presumably not in all races, as no
 one would have a reason to show up at the polls and
 vote NOTA in all races.)

 I've flirted with the idea of supporting compulsory
 voting laws, because I view voting  as a
 distribution of power among political equals, and
 when turnout is not just generally suppressed, but
 suppressed to skew results in demographic ways
 (e.g., targeted at Latinos), it affects the
 allocation of political power.  So I think I object
 most to the depression of turnout targeted at
 particular grou
 ps, even under a NOTA system.  That
 is, if the Latinos for Reform ad was cast as "Vote
 NOTA," I think I'd have the same objections.

 But these are very tentative thoughts and I'd have
 to consider it much more closely.

 On 10/19/2010 8:53 PM, Antoine Yoshinaka

--
Joseph Lorenzo Hall
ACCURATE Postdoctoral Research Associate
UC Berkeley School of Information
Princeton Center for Information Technology Policy
http://josephhall.org/

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