Subject: Re: [EL] Alaska write-ins, voter intent, and the Democracy Canon
From: Paul Gronke
Date: 11/8/2010, 10:35 AM
To: Douglas Johnson
CC: "JBoppjr@aol.com" <JBoppjr@aol.com>, "election-law@mailman.lls.edu" <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>

There is a really wonderful discussion of the virtues and vices of "selection by lot" as a method of representation in Bernard Manin, The Principles of Representative Government.

I use this in undergraduate classes with great success.  The discussion of Italian city states should be required reading for everyone!  I can summarize more if readers are interested, but to cut to the chase, the use of random selection processes has surprisingly deep intellectual and political roots.  It was pushed out by the emergence of Lockeian / Burkeian / Scotch / British reliance on use of "election" and the attendant virtues of accountability.

Seriously, a great read.  Very accessible.  I'm sure many think of Pitkin as "the" book on representation, but in my own opinion, Manin has displaced Pitkin's classic text.
---
Paul Gronke          Ph: 503-517-7393
Fax: 734-661-0801

Professor, Reed College
Director, Early Voting Information Center
3203 SE Woodstock Blvd
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EVIC: http://earlyvoting.net


On Nov 8, 2010, at 10:11 AM, Douglas Johnson wrote:

There is a "random" element to the selection process: the auditors choose a pool of 60, the state legislators strike up to 24 from that pool, and then the first 8 commissioners are randomly chosen from the remaining Republicans (3 chosen), Democrats (3 chosen) and Others (2 chosen). Those 8 -- randomly chosen from the pool of applicants remaining after an extensive screening process -- then choose the final 6 commissioners (2 R, 2 D, 2 Other) to constitute the 14-member commission.
 
This random selection is the major difference between the selection processes in California and Arizona. In California legislators strike names and the final commission is randomly chosen from the survivors. In Arizona the legislative leaders select 4 of the 5 commissioners from the pool remaining after the (similarly extensive) screening process is complete (those 4 -- 2 R and 2 D -- then select the "Other" part chairman).
 
- Doug
 
Douglas Johnson
Fellow
Rose Institute of State and Local Government
Claremont McKenna College
o 909-621-8159
m 310-200-2058
douglas.johnson@cmc.edu
www.RoseReport.org
 
 
 
From: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu [mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu] On Behalf Of Rick Hasen
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 7:31 AM
To: JBoppjr@aol.com
Cc: election-law@mailman.lls.edu
Subject: Re: [EL] Alaska write-ins, voter intent, and the Democracy Canon
 
Jim,

The Prop. 11 commission is hardly random.  There is an extensive screening process, which appears to eliminate anyone with any political experience or political participation.  (This is one of the things that makes me very nervous about it.)  After the auditors choose the first set of participants, these participants choose the remaining members of the commission.  Then, to get anything passed, there has be a plan approved by separate majorities of Dems, Republicans and other party/independent commission members.

Like it or hate it, it is hardly random.

Rick

On 11/8/2010 6:58 AM, JBoppjr@aol.com wrote:
It will be interesting to see how Jon's promotion of random selection works out when the Calif redistricting comm is randomly selected.  I wonder what are the efforts leading up to that to try to manipulate the process.  Jim Bopp
 
In a message dated 11/7/2010 4:15:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jon.roland@constitution.org writes:
Is "clear" clear? Seems foggy to me.

Oh for the day when we are all, past, present, and future, interconnected digitally with no possibility of ambiguity. Except that logic can be fuzzy and indeterminacy rules the Universe, except perhaps to first approximation, except for the exceptions.

Random selection of legislators is beginning to look better every day.

-- Jon
 
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Rick Hasen
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Loyola Law School
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