Subject: Re: [EL] Only 22% of Americans think most judges should be appointed
From: Rob Richie
Date: 4/13/2011, 6:11 AM
To: Paul Lehto
CC: "Smith, Brad" <BSmith@law.capital.edu>, Election Law <election-law@mailman.lls.edu>

Folks might be interested in my defense of electing judges from a perspective of democratic theory in an oped I wrote last year -- starts on page 6 of the Illinois Business Journal here:
http://ibjonline.com/index122010.html

- Rob Richie, FairVote

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Paul Lehto <lehto.paul@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm aware that Rasmussen is a Republican-leaning polling outfit and
has their own model of "likely voters" as most pollsters do, and that
it's controversial in some quarters.  That being said, this will only
increase the margin of error and not fundamentally change the result.
It shouldn't be surprising that voters favor having judges accountable
to them via elections instead of unaccountable (or unaccountable, if
life tenured) to those who appoint and/or confirm.

On a few issues, this one included, I think there are distinct
differences between the political class, however defined, and the
general public.  For example, on the subject of international aid,
such aid is very popular with the political class who see its utility
in influencing foreign affairs, and much less popular with the general
public.

Without defending Rasmussen, yet conceding some additional margin for
error, I think Rasmussen's poll numbers are 'in the ballpark' and make
quite a bit of sense on this particular issue.  I take Rasmussen's
results poll by poll, and when I do cite them it is with the
consciousness of those shortcomings others point to in this thread.

Paul Lehto, J.D.

On 4/13/11, Smith, Brad <BSmith@law.capital.edu> wrote:
> Leaving Rasmussen aside, is there really much doubt that the American public
> (or the subset of likely voters) prefer elected judiciaries?  Paul G. notes
> the old incongruities in American public opinion, and, for example, it's
> true that the appointed U.S. Supreme Court usually shows up quite well in
> "confidence" surveys. But it strikes me that electing judges pretty much
> always comes out on top in any poll, and most importantly, in any
> referendum.
>
> Bradley A. Smith
> Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault Designated Professor of Law
> Capital University Law School
> 303 E. Broad St.
> Columbus, OH 43215
> (614) 236-6317
> http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu on behalf of Paul Gronke
> Sent: Wed 4/13/2011 12:59 AM
> To: Paul Lehto
> Cc: Election Law
> Subject: Re: [EL] Only 22% of Americans think most judges should be
> appointed
>
>
>
> Paul,
>
> There are so many problems with Rasmussen's polls and his transparent
> agenda that I'm not sure where to start.  The "political class" you
> are referring to is a creation of Rasmussen's.  The three questions
> that are supposed to separate the "political class" from the
> "mainstream" (Rasmussen's tendentious labels) are here:
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/august_2010/67_of_political_class_say_u_s_heading_in_right_direction_84_of_mainstream_disagrees
>  In the same story linked above, Rasmussen asserts that our "treasured
> heritage" of self-governance have been "diminished beyond all
> recognition ... as little more than allowing voters to choose which of
> two politicians will rule over them."
>
> Well, no.  "Our cherished heritage" originally included just ONE
> chamber of ONE branch of government with direct popular election.
> Rasmussen has apparently forgotten about the Electoral College,
> indirect election of Senators, and the appointment process to the
> Supreme Court.
>
> But let's forgive Rasmussen's ignorance of American political thought.
>  Let's look at the poll directly.  It asks a series of agree/disagree
> statements about judges.  The one you highlighted is about whether
> judges should be "elected or appointed."  Judges are not identified
> any further than "judges."
>
> Problem 1: What judges?  Federal, district, state, local, traffic court?
>
> Problem 2: Is the opinion target "judges" distinct, meaning, would
> respondents give any different answer for any other governmental
> office, from president to dog-catcher?  We have no idea therefore we
> have no context within which to place the responses.
>
> Problem 3: Do we have any other information about the accuracy of
> perceptions of Courts?  37% of the same respondents state that the
> "average" judge is "too liberal" and that the Supreme Court is also
> "too liberal."  Interesting.  I am not going to comment on what the
> makeup of the Court should be, but anyone who thinks the current Court
> merits the label "liberal" is reflecting political fiction more than
> legal fact.
>
> But even if we accept the poll results, do we find this surprising and
> do we find it revealing?   Consider some alternative data points: in a
> series of studies, John Hibbing and Elizabeth Theiss-Morse showed
> that:
>
>      84% of the public favored more use of initiatives
>      68% wanted term limits on Congress
>      63% wanted power shifted to state and local governments
>
> Sounds like a populist public, right?  The same study found that 48%
> of the public endorsed either "leaving government decisions in the
> hands of successful business people" or "leaving government decisions
> in the hands of non-elected experts."  65% of the sample agreed that
> "people just don't have the time or knowledge to make political
> decisions."
>
> We've long known that the public expresses support for more elections
> and more control, yet the same public expresses skepticism about
> elected officials and longs for non-partisan, expert decision making.
> It would take too long to explain this apparent contradiction here--I
> refer you to Hibbing and Theiss-Morse's excellent books on the
> subject.  This doesn't even address the much more fundamental issues
> that I started with: we don't design constitutions by asking questions
> on public opinion polls.  Public support is one piece of information,
> but it's far from dispositive.
>
> ---
> Paul Gronke    Ph: 503-771-3142
> paul.gronke@gmail.com
> Professor of Political Science and
> Director, Early Voting Information Center
> Reed College
>
> http://earlyvoting.net <http://earlyvoting.net/>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Paul Lehto <lehto.paul@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It is, perhaps, a disappointment to some on this list that only 22%
>> (in a Rasmussen poll released today) think that most judges should be
>> appointed. Sixty-five percent (65%) favor election.   What Rasmussen
>> calls 'the political class' disagrees, with a plurality of 49%
>> favoring appointment.   I conclude that the people still favor
>> democratically elected judges, despite hand-wringing amongst the
>> political class about the "evils" of judicial elections.  Among other
>> things, this hand-wringing (if it becomes successful) has the effect
>> of shifting power to the political class, because the power of
>> appointing judges shifts power to elected officials and political
>> establishments and away from voters.
>>
>> See
>> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/april_2011/65_say_most_judges_should_be_elected_political_class_disagrees
>>
>> --
>> Paul R Lehto, J.D.
>> P.O. Box 1
>> Ishpeming, MI  49849
>> lehto.paul@gmail.com
>> 906-204-4026 (cell)
>> _______________________________________________
>> election-law mailing list
>> election-law@mailman.lls.edu
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>>
>
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>
>


--
Paul R Lehto, J.D.
P.O. Box 1
Ishpeming, MI  49849
lehto.paul@gmail.com
906-204-4026 (cell)
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