Re: [EL] Pay to Play or "No Pay to Play"

       I believe that the extension of collective bargaining rights to public employees (which was opposed, inter alia, by FDR, Fiorello LaGuardia, and George Meany, none of whom was known for hostility to the labor movement) has proven to be one of the worst public policy decisions made in my lifetime.  I also believe the requirement that would-be government contractors disclose their political activities is a dangerous proposal for the reasons suggested by Mark Scarberry.

       At the same time, I believe Mr. Donnelly's point was an appropriate response to Brad Smith's post.  Brad's point was that setting aside the conceded pros and cons on the merits of the government contractor issue, the motivation for it is to discourage or penalize political activity.  That seems a plausible contention, though I cannot say how pervasively true it is.  (It also seems rather short-sighted, as the possible abuse is just as likely in a Republican as in a Democratic administration.)  Brad argues that the fact of its motivation should give pause to those who favor the requirement on its merits.

       To whatever extent that is true (it is an interesting question), it seems fair for Mr. Donnelly to respond that the efforts that have picked up steam this year to restrict public employee collective bargaining rights are also motivated by the desire for partisan political advantage.  Again, that seems a plausible contention, though it is hard to say how pervasively true it is.  There has been considerable writing on this subject in the past couple of years or so by people like William Voegeli who do not directly participate in partisan politics and appear genuinely to be concerned about the merits of this issue (as am I).  But if Brad's point is a valid one (to the extent is empirically correct), then so is Mr. Donnelly's (to the same extent).

        Plainly, as Brad suggests, this listserv is not the place for debating the merits of public employee collective bargaining.  But I believe Mr. Donnelly's reference to the issue was directly relevant.

             Best,

             Daniel H. Lowenstein
             Director, Center for the Liberal Arts and Free Institutions (CLAFI)
             UCLA Law School
             405 Hilgard
             Los Angeles, California 90095-1476
             310-825-5148

________________________________
From: election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu [election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu] On Behalf Of Smith, Brad [BSmith@law.capital.edu]
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:52 PM
To: David Donnelly
Cc: Scarberry, Mark; Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] Pay to Play or "No Pay to Play"

Then it is hard for me to understand why you are posting. If you don't like the subject of my posts, please don't imply I'm a hypocrite for not posting about the subjects that interest you. Do you own posts.

Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault Designated Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 236-6317
http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp

-----Original Message-----
From: David Donnelly [mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org]
Sent: Thu 4/21/2011 5:47 PM
To: Smith, Brad
Cc: Stephen Klein; Scarberry, Mark; Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] Pay to Play or "No Pay to Play"

Please don't place words in my mouth. I've said nothing about my views on those matters.

Sent from my iPhone. Sorry for typos and cryptic messages.

On Apr 21, 2011, at 5:46 PM, "Smith, Brad" <BSmith@law.capital.edu<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>> wrote:

Well, that's all I'm asking, that we recognize that DISCLOSE, the EO, the Van Hollen suit, etc are not about good governance, but silencing the opposition. I'm glad you are with me on that.

Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault Designated Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 236-6317
<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp

-----Original Message-----
From: David Donnelly [<mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org>mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org]
Sent: Thu 4/21/2011 5:41 PM
To: Smith, Brad
Cc: Stephen Klein; Scarberry, Mark; Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] Pay to Play or "No Pay to Play"

You can ask me to stick my head in the sand and pretend that the attacks on unions' funding has nothing to do with the financing of america's elections but it's not a very convincing case from where I sit. For the record, I'm not looking for more regulation per se. I'm looking for more participation and as a result a more perfect union, no pun intended. But I live and work in the real world of practical politics.

Sent from my iPhone. Sorry for typos and cryptic messages.

On Apr 21, 2011, at 5:34 PM, "Smith, Brad" <BSmith@law.capital.edu<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>> wrote:

No David, no it's not, if the term election law has meaning.  That said, however, if you do feel that way, I would hope even more that this partisan manipulation of the law would cause you to rethink you support for broad regulation.0
Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault Designated Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 236-6317
<<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp

-----Original Message-----
From: David Donnelly [<<mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org>mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org><mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org>mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org]
Sent: Thu 4/21/2011 5:13 PM
To: Smith, Brad
Cc: Stephen Klein; Scarberry, Mark; Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] Pay to Play or "No Pay to Play"

Of the top ten independent expenditure groups as measured by reported spending (imperfect as that is) in 2010, seven overwhelmingly supported republicans and three overwhelmingly supported democrats. The three are all public sector unions. Cutting labor unions' funding off at the knees is an electoral issue.

Sent from my iPhone. Sorry for typos and cryptic messages.

On Apr 21, 2011, at 5:05 PM, "Smith, Brad" <BSmith@law.capital.edu<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>> wrote:

Perhaps, but I was under the impression that this list was about election law.

Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault Designated Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 236-6317
<<<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp

-----Original Message-----
From: David Donnelly [<<<mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org>mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org><mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org>mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org><<mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org>mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org><mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org>mailto:ddonnelly@campaignmoney.org]
Sent: Thu 4/21/2011 4:54 PM
To: Smith, Brad
Cc: Stephen Klein; Scarberry, Mark; Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] Pay to Play or "No Pay to Play"

Like ending dues collection (or making dues collective extremely difficult) for public employee union or all unions?

Sent from my iPhone. Sorry for typos and cryptic messages.

On Apr 21, 2011, at 4:44 PM, "Smith, Brad" <<<<<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>BSmith@law.capital.edu<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<<<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><<mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu><mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>mailto:BSmith@law.capital.edu>> wrote:

Reformers who propose this type of thing often point to the need to look at the real world.

Ok. The real world is that all this - Disclose, new SEC regs, the FCC and FEC efforts, the EO, the  Van Hollen petition-
All are conscious efforts to use the law to silence Political opposition.

We all know that that is true, even if there are more defensible reasons for these proposals that motivate the type of people on this list. But that reality, one might hope, would give pause to all.

Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault Designated Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
(614) 236-6317
<<<<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><<<<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><<<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>!
 http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><<http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp><http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp>http://www.law.capital.edu/Faculty/Bios/bsmith.asp

-----Original Message-----
From: <<<<mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><<mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu> election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu<mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><<mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><<<mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><<<<mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu><<mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>!
 <mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu>mailto:election-law-bounces@mailman.lls.edu> on behalf of Stephen Klein
Sent: Thu 4/21/2011 1:13 PM
To: Scarberry, Mark
Cc: Election Law
Subject: Re: [EL] Pay to Play or "No Pay to Play"

Certainly could be a subtle shift back in the direction of independent expenditures as quid pro pro, struck down in CU but not gone entirely via Caperton. It's worth noting also that Citizens United did not affect regulations against coordination with candidates. So, if there's a problem there the FEC has a way to address it-- will this reg merely buttress investigations into these concerns or circumvent the gov'ts burden?

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 21, 2011, at 12:52 PM, "Scarberry, Mark" <<<<<mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><<mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu<mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><<mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><<<mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><<<<mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><<mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu><mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>mailto:Mark.Scarberry@pepperdine.edu>> wrote: