[EL] Case in point: Secret signatures and secret ballots

[Daniel Schuman]

Scott, in the story<http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/18/college-student-credited-with-uncovering-possible-election-fraud-in-indianas/>Bev
referred to, it seems that public disclosure was necessary for the
student to be able to notice that the signatures appeared to be in the same
handwriting. I don't understand your assertion to the contrary. Could you
explain?

Daniel

On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:30 AM, Scott F. Bieniek
<sbieniek at bienieklaw.com>wrote:

> The fraud detected by the student was detected using traditional methods,
> and did not turn on the public disclosure of the petitions:
>
> "signatures that he says appeared to be written in the same handwriting..."
>
> The student detected the fraud without any need to confirm that an
> individual actually signed the petition (it was evident on their face),
> although such reports certainly validate his findings after the fact.
>
> Review of ballot petitions is hardly the only instance where we rely on a
> government employee to verify the accuracy of a document. Every year,
> millions of Americans file tax returns with the Internal Revenue Service.
> With the exception of income reported on information returns (W-2, 1099,
> etc), the entire system is premised upon an individual taxpayer voluntarily
> reporting any and all income.
>
> If you are in favor of public disclosure for ballot petitions, why not
> require public disclosure of tax returns? Your neighbor is in a far better
> position than the IRS agent to determine whether you accurately reported the
> income. Your neighbor after all, can see that new boat sitting in your
> driveway, or the extension you just added to your home.
>
> -Scott F. Bieniek
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, Bev Harris <bev at blackboxvoting.org>wrote:
>
>> The news story excerpted below describes a member of the public, a college
>> student, who sought to authenticate the accounting on petitions.
>>
>> " Nees ...  delved into the Byzantine and complicated world of petition
>> signatures and found reams of signatures that he says appeared to be
>> written in
>> the same handwriting, some apparently copied from previous petitions."
>>
>> The county attorney is now investigating.
>>
>> This is an accounting issue, not a privacy issue. The petition signers
>> need to
>> be publicly disclosed because that's the only way the public can
>> authenticate a
>> petition.
>>
>> If you use a hidden accounting system controlled by the government(ie, the
>> secretary of state and persons he chooses will examine the signatures and
>> tell
>> us the result, without any way for us to authenticate) you alter the
>> structural
>> framework of the democratic system, allowing the government to choose
>> itself
>> (in the case of a petition for a candidate) and to choose the rules for
>> its own
>> governance (in the case of policy petitions).
>>
>>
>>
>> Bev Harris
>> Founder - Black Box Voting
>> http://www.blackboxvoting.org
>>
>> * * * * *
>>
>> Government is the servant of the people, and not the master of them. The
>> people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the
>> right
>> to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for
>> them to
>> know. We insist on remaining informed so that we may retain control over
>> the
>> instruments of government we have created.
>>
>> Black Box Voting is a nonpartisan, nonprofit 501c(3) elections watchdog
>> group
>> funded entirely by citizen donations.
>> http://www.blackboxvoting.org/donate.html
>> Black Box Voting
>> 330 SW 43rd St Suite K
>> PMB 547
>> Renton WA 98057
>>
>>
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>
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