[EL] deaths after voting by mail

Wed Aug 8 17:14:07 PDT 2012

I find this surprising and perhaps unconstitutional.  A deceased person has
no constitutional rights, yet their vote is diluting those of the living.
 In a close enough election it would make for an interesting challenge.   I
suppose a similar issue would be a person who renounced their US
citizenship after voting by mail, but before election day.  I wouldn't
think that vote should count.

Daniel

On Wed, Aug 8, 2012 at 11:05 AM, Riemer, Justin (SBE) <
Justin.Riemer at sbe.virginia.gov> wrote:

> Virginia enacted legislation in 2011 to explicitly allow for the counting
> of absentee ballots by individuals who vote absentee and die before
> Election Day. Please see link here:
> http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604.exe?111+ful+CHAP0654
>
> The legislation passed unanimously.
>
>
> Justin Riemer
> Deputy Secretary
> Virginia State Board of Elections
> Office Phone: (804) 864-8904
> Mobile: (804) 366-5330
> SBE Website: http://www.sbe.virginia.gov
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Lillie Coney
> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 1:21 PM
> To: Lowenstein, Daniel
> Cc: 'Doug Hess'; 'Election Law'
> Subject: Re: [EL] deaths after voting by mail
>
> In my view, absentee ballots cast by persons prior to their death should
> be treated
> like dying declarations.
>
> There are very few ballots that fall into this category and their treatment
> should be with the utmost respect for the intent to the voter to have
> their voice heard--many of them knowing that they would not see election
> day.  The tools are available for voters to cast ballots in this method
> and overtime states have become aware that voters who cast absentee
> or early voting ballots can die before election day -- accidents, sudden
> or succumbing to long term illnesses.
>
> It is left to each state to decide how they will deal with votes cast
> prior to an
> election by a person who later dies.  The only question for the process is
> did
> the voter cast the ballot--this is especially important for terminally ill
> patients
> in residential or hospice care.. This may be resolvable by a witness'
> signature
> preferably a medical care advocate on the exterior of the ballot
> envelop--not
> need to expose the ballot to a third party only the attestation that the
> person
> can under terms of state election law freely cast an independent ballot.
>
> This last suggestion is to guard against very close elections when the
> number
> of these ballots fall within the margin of victory.
>
> Lillie Coney
>
> On Aug 3, 2012, at 2:09 PM, Lowenstein, Daniel wrote:
>
> >        I am reminded of G.K. Chesterton, who observed that some
> so-called democrats (small "d," of course) took pride in believing that
> participation in government should not be determined by the accident of
> birth, but went further by insisting that participation should not be
> determined by the accident of death.
> >
> >             Best,
> >
> >             Daniel H. Lowenstein
> >             Director, Center for the Liberal Arts and Free Institutions
> (CLAFI)
> >             UCLA Law School
> >             405 Hilgard
> >             Los Angeles, California 90095-1476
> >             310-825-5148
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Mayer [
> kmayer at polisci.wisc.edu]
> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 9:59 AM
> > To: 'Steve Kolbert'; 'Doug Hess'
> > Cc: 'Election Law'
> > Subject: Re: [EL] deaths after voting by mail
> >
> > Short answer: not enough votes to worry about, there's nothing that
> could be done if there were, and even if something could be done, it
> wouldn't be right.  By any reasonable definition, a vote is a vote when it
> is cast, no matter what happens to the voter subsequently.
> >
> > In Oregon, according to the Public Health division, about 2,500-2,900
> people die in a typical month<
> http://public.health.oregon.gov/BirthDeathCertificates/VitalStatistics/FinalData/Documents/10/deathmo.pdf>,
> with about 98% of those deaths occurring in the voting age population<
> http://public.health.oregon.gov/BirthDeathCertificates/VitalStatistics/FinalData/Documents/10/deathage.pdf>.
>   Turnout as a percentage of VAP in 2008 was 63% according to Michael
> McDonald's United States Election Project<
> http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2008G.html>.  If we assume that deaths
> over a month are evenly distributed, and that votes are cast roughly evenly
> over the month, that gives an estimated approximate upper limit  (back of
> the envelope calculation; the actual numbers will be slightly different,
> but not by enough to worry about) of the number of votes potentially cast
> by people who died before election day as:
> >
> > 2,900*.98*.63*.5 = 895 votes
> >
> > The key quantity here isn't this number, but the margin of victory for
> the winning candidate among these voters.  An election would have to be
> pretty close for this to make a difference, but let's say these voters went
> 60%-40% for a candidate in a two candidate race.  That 20% margin reduces
> this 895 votes to 179 votes.  That could make a difference in a really
> tight race, but there aren't many statewide races decided by this margin.
> >
> > But it doesn't really make any difference, because for these votes to be
> rejected, you'd have to hang on to every vote until  you got confirmation
> that the voter had actually died, which is not workable.
> >
> > This isn't different than a voter who casts a ballot on election day,
> but who dies (or moves to another state)  before the results are certified.
> >
> > Ken Mayer
> >
> >
> > Kenneth R. Mayer
> > Professor, Department of Political Science
> > Affiliate Faculty, La Follette School of Public Affairs
> > University of Wisconsin - Madison
> > 110 North Hall/1050 Bascom Mall
> > Madison, WI  53706
> > (608) 263-2286 (voice)/ (608) 265-2663 (fax)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Kolbert
> > Sent: Friday, August 03, 2012 11:09 AM
> > To: Doug Hess
> > Cc: Election Law
> > Subject: Re: [EL] deaths after voting by mail
> >
> >
> > You can find a discussion of the applicable Virginia law in Op. Va.
> Att'y Gen. 10-104 (Oct. 26, 2010), available at
> http://www.oag.state.va.us/Opinions%20and%20Legal%20Resources/OPINIONS/2010opns/10-104-Lind.pdf
> >
> > SUMMARY:
> > When a general registrar knows an absentee voter has died prior to
> election day, but after having voted by absentee ballot, the registrar must
> cancel that voter's registration, and the absentee ballot should not be
> counted; but that in those circumstances in which absentee ballots are cast
> prior to election day in a manner by which the absentee ballot no longer
> can be set aside, the general registrar who knows of the voter's death
> shall cancel that voter's registration, but election officials are not
> otherwise required to perform the impossible task of not counting the
> deceased voter's ballot.
> >
> > Steve Kolbert
> > (202) 422-2588
> > steve.kolbert at gmail.com<mailto:steve.kolbert at gmail.com>
> > @Pronounce_the_T
> > On Aug 3, 2012 11:54 AM, "Doug Hess" <douglasrhess at gmail.com<mailto:
> douglasrhess at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Let's say you vote by mail and then kick the bucket before ballots are
> counted or before election day. Assuming election officials notice this
> about you and spot your ballot, do laws or regulations address counting
> that ballot? I assume that if you were eligible to vote when you did, that
> dieing before ballots are counted doesn't matter.
> >
> > If an election is entirely by mail and you can get ballots 30 days in
> advance (is that standard?), just how many adults go six feet under in that
> period. I'm wondering--for Friday amusement partially--if the number or
> percentage is enough that the dead can determine an outcome?
> >
> > Doug
> >
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