[EL] sore-loser laws for Congress

Richard Winger richardwinger at yahoo.com
Tue Nov 13 09:55:26 PST 2012


The South Carolina plaintiff-candidates weren't running for Congress.

Richard Winger

415-922-9779

PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147

--- On Tue, 11/13/12, Dan Meek <dan at meek.net> wrote:

From: Dan Meek <dan at meek.net>
Subject: Re: [EL] sore-loser laws for Congress
To: richardwinger at yahoo.com
Cc: "David A. Holtzman" <David at HoltzmanLaw.com>, "Lillie Coney" <coney at lillieconey.net>, law-election at uci.edu
Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2012, 5:35 AM


  

    

    
  
  
    Sore loser laws have been upheld since then.  See  South Carolina
    Green Party v. South Carolina State Election Commission, 612 F.3d
    752 C.A.4 (S.C.) 2010.

      

    

    
      
        
          
            Dan Meek
          
          503-293-9021
              
          dan at meek.net
            
          866-926-9646 fax
              
        
      
    
    

    On 11/12/2012 3:13 PM, Richard Winger wrote:

    
      
        
          I feel sore-loser laws
            are unconstitutional, as a result of US Term Limits v
            Thornton, 514 US 779 (1995).  I agree with Lillie Coney.  I
            also think sore-loser laws are unwise.

            

            In Storer v Brown, Justice Byron White, the author, wrote
            footnote 16 saying "of course" sore loser laws don't violate
            Article One, but he didn't really explain why they aren't
            unconstitutional.  Storer v Brown came out in 1974, before
            the US Supreme Court had even decided whether states can add
            to the qualifications for Congress.  So he was premature to
            even express himself in 1974.

            

            White's very short footnote 16 was insulting to Joseph
            Remcho and Paul Halvonik, who devoted half their brief to
            arguing the point about Article One.  For Justice White to
            dismiss one of their biggest arguments with a very short
            footnote, at the very end of the opinion, was not
            respectful.

            

            Richard Winger

            415-922-9779

            PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147

            

            --- On Mon, 11/12/12, Lillie Coney <coney at lillieconey.net>
            wrote:

            

              From: Lillie Coney <coney at lillieconey.net>

              Subject: Re: [EL] Reps got more popular votes for US House
              in 1996 than Dems

              To: "David A. Holtzman" <David at HoltzmanLaw.com>

              Cc: richardwinger at yahoo.com, law-election at uci.edu

              Date: Monday, November 12, 2012, 2:43 PM

              

              
                
                  
                    Allowing candidates who are not successful in
                      primaries or 
                    caucuses on the General election ballot may
                      have a silver lining 
                    if they have stronger electability
                      prospects. In any case, this approach
                    could limit competition and encourage third
                      party efforts. For some 
                    time the thought of successful
                      Independent Federal candidate seemed 
                    far fetched, but now there are Independents in
                      the Senate.
                  
                  

                  
                  The other thought is this approach might shift the
                  focus of dollars and 
                  energy to the primary level. The primary caucus
                    process is where
                  candidates with little in resources may find an
                    opportunity to enter
                  competition for elected office. The question
                    about primary and caucus
                  elections are managed by each political party.
                    The parties will need 
                  to think about how they would like to manage the
                    issue of unsuccessful
                  primary or caucus candidates joining the ballot
                    in the general elections
                  as independents.
                  
                    

                    
                    I do not see how one party can ban someone from
                      a general election
                    ballot who meets the requirements established
                      by a state. Even
                    if a state passes a law that bans a candidate
                      that ran in an unsuccessful 
                    political party primary or caucus election I do
                      not see how they could do
                    this without a legal challenge being a huge
                      chance of being successful.  
                    The person running would not be running under
                      the party standard that 
                    is challenging their presence on the ballot.
                      Would a challenge be seen as 
                    limiting political speech? Is there a right to
                      run for elected office--has this 
                    been established by previous court decision? 
                    

                    
                    Lillie
                    

                    
                    
                      
                        On Nov 12, 2012, at 4:01 PM, David A.
                          Holtzman wrote:
                        

                        
                          
                            So Richard,

                              

                              What’s your position now on holding just
                              *part* of an election before November?

                              

                              Say, a primary in September? 
                              Constitutional?  Legal?

                              

                              Say, a primary in June?  Constitutional?  Legal?

                              

                              With primary losers barred from the ballot
                              (even as write-ins) in November?    Constitutional?  Legal?

                              

                              With write-ins allowed only in the
                              primary, not in November? 
                                Constitutional?  Legal?

                              

                                - dah

                              

                              

                            
                            


                            On
                              11/12/2012 12:30 PM, Richard Winger wrote:

                            
                            
                              
                                
                                  
                                    The Clerk of the US
                                      House of Representatives data for
                                      1996 doesn't include the September
                                      21, 1996 election results for US
                                      House in Louisiana.  That is why
                                      the Clerk's chart shows Democrats
                                      got more popular votes than the
                                      Republicans nationwide, because
                                      the Clerk's data only has the
                                      Louisiana returns that took place
                                      in November, which was only 2
                                      districts.

                                      

                                      The US Supreme Court ruled in 1997
                                      in Foster v Love that Louisiana
                                      was breaking the federal law by
                                      holding its congressional
                                      elections in September.  So, the
                                      US Supreme Court agreed with my
                                      approach, that the Louisiana
                                      election in September was an
                                      election, and therefore it is
                                      rational for me to have included
                                      the September results in those 5
                                      districts.

                                      

                                      Rhodes Cook agrees with me.  See
                                      America Votes 1996 (vol. 22), page
                                      4.  His compilation of the
                                      national US House vote for 1996 by
                                      party is:  Republican 43,902,303;
                                      Democratic 43,626,470.

                                      

                                      Richard Winger

                                      415-922-9779

                                      PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca
                                      94147
                                  
                                
                              
                              

                              
                              

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                            -- 

                              David

                                A. Holtzman, M.P.H., J.D.

                                david at holtzmanlaw.com
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