[EL] Nothing unusual here?

Sat Oct 27 13:09:35 PDT 2012

I am not familiar with the Somali community in Ohio, but I believe the
citizenship requirement for voting to be very well known among immigrant
communities generally.  US citizenship and legal presence in the US have
immense value.  Immigrant community members are well aware of the obstacles
they face.

There have been many prosecutions of non-citizens, and I believe that
deportation follows routinely: it saves money.  Individuals who sign forms
in languages that they do not understand act at risk.  Not knowing what you
are signing is not a defense.

I am not among those who see billboards as intimidating.  Letters sent to
individuals' homes are quite another matter.
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Scarberry, Mark <
Mark.Scarberry at pepperdine.edu> wrote:

> We should not assume that just because these voters were of Somali
> ethnicity they were noncitizens. On the other hand, some of the arguments
> being made here to the effect that there is not a problem seem weak.****
>
> ** **
>
> Do we want the citizenship requirement to be widely publicized, as Richard
> suggests? Didn’t many people think it was voter-suppressive to publicize
> the citizenship requirement by billboards or by posted signs at balloting
> locations in areas with substantial immigrant populations? Or am I
> remembering that controversy incorrectly?****
>
> ** **
>
> Does anyone know what the realistic chances are that a non-citizen
> permanent resident will be prosecuted or deported for falsely stating that
> he or she is a citizen? If interpreters are needed, then it seems that the
> voting materials (which, as I understand Richard’s post, require signing of
> a declaration of citizenship) are not in the Somali immigrant voters’
> native language. Would such a voter realize that he or she was falsely
> claiming citizenship by signing a document in a language that the person
> did not understand? If not, then wouldn’t that be a defense to a
> prosecution or a deportation proceeding?****
>
> ** **
>
> Mark****
>
> ** **
>
> Mark S. Scarberry****
>
> Professor of Law****
>
> Pepperdine Univ. School of Law****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *Richard
> Winger
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:39 AM
> *To:* Justin Levitt; Steve Hoersting
> *Cc:* law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Nothing unusual here?****
>
> ** **
>
> These Somalis must sign in under penalty of perjury that they are
> citizens.  They are leaving a paper trail; we can know who among these
> group voted, and any of them who aren't citizens will be in big legal
> trouble.  It would be a personal catastrophe for any Somali who has
> established a life in Ohio to be deported back to Somalia.
>
> If there is a fear that these people aren't aware of the law, it would be
> desirable that community leaders in the Somali Ohio community publicize the
> law in the language that the members would be able to read, of course.
> Ohio election administration is headed by a Republican Secretary of State.
> He is an elected official and he has the ear of the press.  He is very
> capable of communicating with leaders of the Somali community in Ohio to
> encourage leaders of the community to publicize Ohio law.
>
> Richard Winger
> 415-922-9779
> PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147
>
> --- On *Sat, 10/27/12, Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com>* wrote:****
>
>
> From: Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [EL] Nothing unusual here?
> To: "Justin Levitt" <levittj at lls.edu>
> Cc: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> Date: Saturday, October 27, 2012, 10:59 AM****
>
> Justin, respectfully, the questions are these:****
>
> ** **
>
> 1) How many of those persons in the story are citizens who can vote?****
>
> ** **
>
> And 2) if any are voting who aren't citizens -- eligible under current law
> because they present a Columbia-Gas bill to an Ohio election worker and
> check a box -- will be disqualified before the losing candidate in a tight
> contest concedes the election?****
>
> ** **
>
> Really, this is an election-law list to which we're posting. Don't say you
> don't understand the issues at stake, the importance of momentum in the
> closest battleground, or the importance of margins.****
>
> ** **
>
> If this were a list of, say, auto enthusiasts or of pinochle, I would
> understand,  and most likely agree with, your wrap-yourself-in-the-flag
> retort. Given the context, however, it won't do.****
>
> ** **
>
> Cordially,****
>
> ** **
>
> Steve****
>
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Justin Levitt <levittj at lls.edu<http://mc/compose?to=levittj@lls.edu>>
> wrote:****
>
> I'm not sure which laws implicated in the story are "new and relaxed."
> And I think what Richard was suggesting is that if the concern is that the
> only available translators are Democrats, the Republicans might want to
> find themselves a Somali translator.  If your mom speaks Somali, and feels
> like translating, good for her -- I'm not aware that translators have to be
> citizens under the law.
>
> By the numbers cited in the story (which I've not confirmed), there are in
> Ohio at least 18000 American citizens of Somalian descent.  At least 6750
> of them have limited English proficiency.  And they have to parse (among
> other things) a redistricting initiative<https://vote.franklincountyohio.gov/voter/ballots/SAMPLE_0036.pdf>that spans three columns of the ballot if they want to exercise their civic
> responsibilities.
>
> They have come to the polls, received materials protected by the First
> Amendment outside of an electioneering zone, and sought to vote according
> to the governing federal and state laws, including a federal law permitting
> translation assistance at the polls that has been enforced by both Democratic
> and Republican administrations at the DOJ<http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/vot/litigation/recent_208.php>
> .
>
> Whether any of this activity is unusual depends entirely on where you live
> and who you hang out with, I suspect.  But there's nothing in the report
> that I can see that leads to any conclusion that there's anything
> unlawful.  Maybe "what's going on here" is citizens expressing their right
> to vote for their representatives.  I'm not suspicious of that sort of
> thing during an election.
>
> Justin****
>
> ** **
>
> On 10/27/2012 10:36 AM, Steve Hoersting wrote:****
>
> Yes, Richard: My Mom is a Canadian. She "works for", such as it is, "the
> Republican side."  ****
>
> ** **
>
> She doesn't vote, however. And no one picks her up in a van. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Trying honestly to determine what is going on here... in a State everyone
> agrees is the battleground... voting under new and relaxed voting laws,***
> *
>
> ** **
>
> Steve****
>
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Richard Winger <richardwinger at yahoo.com<http://mc/compose?to=richardwinger@yahoo.com>>
> wrote:****
>
> The Ohio Republican Party or the Romney campaign probably has the
> resources and ability to find Somali-speaking persons who would work for
> the Republican side, especially if there are that many Somali-speakers in
> Ohio.
>
> Richard Winger
> 415-922-9779
> PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147
>
> --- On *Sat, 10/27/12, Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=hoersting@gmail.com>
> >* wrote:****
>
>
> From: Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=hoersting@gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: [EL] Nothing unusual here?
> To: law-election at uci.edu <http://mc/compose?to=law-election@uci.edu>
> Date: Saturday, October 27, 2012, 10:09 AM ****
>
> ** **
>
>
> http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/26/is-voter-fraud-being-committed-in-ohio/
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Stephen M. Hoersting****
>
> ** **
>
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> -- ****
>
> Justin Levitt****
>
> Associate Professor of Law****
>
> Loyola Law School | Los Angeles****
>
> 919 Albany St.****
>
> Los Angeles, CA  90015****
>
> 213-736-7417****
>
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