[EL] Nothing unusual here?

Sat Oct 27 12:46:29 PDT 2012

We should not assume that just because these voters were of Somali ethnicity they were noncitizens. On the other hand, some of the arguments being made here to the effect that there is not a problem seem weak.

Do we want the citizenship requirement to be widely publicized, as Richard suggests? Didn't many people think it was voter-suppressive to publicize the citizenship requirement by billboards or by posted signs at balloting locations in areas with substantial immigrant populations? Or am I remembering that controversy incorrectly?

Does anyone know what the realistic chances are that a non-citizen permanent resident will be prosecuted or deported for falsely stating that he or she is a citizen? If interpreters are needed, then it seems that the voting materials (which, as I understand Richard's post, require signing of a declaration of citizenship) are not in the Somali immigrant voters' native language. Would such a voter realize that he or she was falsely claiming citizenship by signing a document in a language that the person did not understand? If not, then wouldn't that be a defense to a prosecution or a deportation proceeding?

Mark

Mark S. Scarberry
Professor of Law
Pepperdine Univ. School of Law

From: law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Winger
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 11:39 AM
To: Justin Levitt; Steve Hoersting
Cc: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
Subject: Re: [EL] Nothing unusual here?

These Somalis must sign in under penalty of perjury that they are citizens.  They are leaving a paper trail; we can know who among these group voted, and any of them who aren't citizens will be in big legal trouble.  It would be a personal catastrophe for any Somali who has established a life in Ohio to be deported back to Somalia.

If there is a fear that these people aren't aware of the law, it would be desirable that community leaders in the Somali Ohio community publicize the law in the language that the members would be able to read, of course.  Ohio election administration is headed by a Republican Secretary of State.  He is an elected official and he has the ear of the press.  He is very capable of communicating with leaders of the Somali community in Ohio to encourage leaders of the community to publicize Ohio law.

Richard Winger
415-922-9779
PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147

--- On Sat, 10/27/12, Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [EL] Nothing unusual here?
To: "Justin Levitt" <levittj at lls.edu>
Cc: law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
Date: Saturday, October 27, 2012, 10:59 AM
Justin, respectfully, the questions are these:

1) How many of those persons in the story are citizens who can vote?

And 2) if any are voting who aren't citizens -- eligible under current law because they present a Columbia-Gas bill to an Ohio election worker and check a box -- will be disqualified before the losing candidate in a tight contest concedes the election?

Really, this is an election-law list to which we're posting. Don't say you don't understand the issues at stake, the importance of momentum in the closest battleground, or the importance of margins.

If this were a list of, say, auto enthusiasts or of pinochle, I would understand,  and most likely agree with, your wrap-yourself-in-the-flag retort. Given the context, however, it won't do.

Cordially,

Steve
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:43 PM, Justin Levitt <levittj at lls.edu</mc/compose?to=levittj at lls.edu>> wrote:
I'm not sure which laws implicated in the story are "new and relaxed."  And I think what Richard was suggesting is that if the concern is that the only available translators are Democrats, the Republicans might want to find themselves a Somali translator.  If your mom speaks Somali, and feels like translating, good for her -- I'm not aware that translators have to be citizens under the law.

By the numbers cited in the story (which I've not confirmed), there are in Ohio at least 18000 American citizens of Somalian descent.  At least 6750 of them have limited English proficiency.  And they have to parse (among other things) a redistricting initiative<https://vote.franklincountyohio.gov/voter/ballots/SAMPLE_0036.pdf> that spans three columns of the ballot if they want to exercise their civic responsibilities.

They have come to the polls, received materials protected by the First Amendment outside of an electioneering zone, and sought to vote according to the governing federal and state laws, including a federal law permitting translation assistance at the polls that has been enforced by both Democratic and Republican administrations at the DOJ<http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/vot/litigation/recent_208.php>.

Whether any of this activity is unusual depends entirely on where you live and who you hang out with, I suspect.  But there's nothing in the report that I can see that leads to any conclusion that there's anything unlawful.  Maybe "what's going on here" is citizens expressing their right to vote for their representatives.  I'm not suspicious of that sort of thing during an election.

Justin

On 10/27/2012 10:36 AM, Steve Hoersting wrote:
Yes, Richard: My Mom is a Canadian. She "works for", such as it is, "the Republican side."

She doesn't vote, however. And no one picks her up in a van.

Trying honestly to determine what is going on here... in a State everyone agrees is the battleground... voting under new and relaxed voting laws,

Steve
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Richard Winger <richardwinger at yahoo.com</mc/compose?to=richardwinger at yahoo.com>> wrote:
The Ohio Republican Party or the Romney campaign probably has the resources and ability to find Somali-speaking persons who would work for the Republican side, especially if there are that many Somali-speakers in Ohio.

Richard Winger
415-922-9779
PO Box 470296, San Francisco Ca 94147

--- On Sat, 10/27/12, Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com</mc/compose?to=hoersting at gmail.com>> wrote:

From: Steve Hoersting <hoersting at gmail.com</mc/compose?to=hoersting at gmail.com>>
Subject: [EL] Nothing unusual here?
To: law-election at uci.edu</mc/compose?to=law-election at uci.edu>
Date: Saturday, October 27, 2012, 10:09 AM

http://www.humanevents.com/2012/10/26/is-voter-fraud-being-committed-in-ohio/

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