[EL] listserv decorum
JBoppjr at aol.com
JBoppjr at aol.com
Sat Aug 31 04:21:12 PDT 2013
But it is the government that is requiring the disclosure of political
contributions. This is the critical information, not otherwise available, that
leads to harassment, even if other personal information can be discovered
on the Internet. Jim Bopp
In a message dated 8/30/2013 11:01:15 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Kevin.Greenberg at flastergreenberg.com writes:
As I said to Bill, my distribution was not intended in any way to expose
him and I apologize that he took it as a threat.
For what it is worth, I made a point not to include the street address (as
opposed to the name), his spouse’s name, or his phone number, all of which
were discoverable within my self-imposed 120 second limit. It was
intended as an illustration of the fact that the Internet has changed what is
private. I think everyone needs to be aware that our debate about address
disclosure is at some level silly. We either disclose what people give, or we
do not. But the idea that the ancillary information is somehow secret is
very 20th Century of us.
Kevin Greenberg
(215) 279-9912
From: Rick Hasen [mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu]
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 10:30 AM
To: Greenberg, Kevin
Cc: 'Bill Maurer'; 'Michael P McDonald'; 'law-election at UCI.edu'
Subject: listserv decorum
Kevin and others,
Regardless of one's views on the merits of the disclosure question, I do
not want people to use this listserv, has you have below, to disclose
personal information about listserv members or others. Please refrain from using
the listserv for this purpose.
Rick
On 8/29/13 2:25 PM, Greenberg, Kevin wrote:
For whatever it’s worth, I found her home address in Maryland, her address
of birth, and at least two other addresses in less than two minutes using
free, online search tools. Not even talking about the commercially
available databases.
And I did NOT use any campaign finance database.
Whether or not to disclose addresses on campaign finance databases may be
an interesting debate. But no one needs a campaign finance database to
identify anyone’s home address.
Bill, your name is a little more common, so in two minutes I can’t tell if
you live on ...K. Odds are its one of those. I can share the various
spouses and prior addresses as well if you wish.
Kevin Greenberg
(215) 279-9912
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Maurer
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 3:16 PM
To: Michael P McDonald; _law-election at UCI.edu_
(mailto:law-election at UCI.edu)
Subject: Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
Unfortunately, Professor, your view does not prevail among many
legislators and administrative agency officials, many of whom have the view of “
disclose everything, though the heavens may fall,” and who consistently ignore
or minimize the serious consequences that result from this position.
Rather than start from where we think the line might be drawn, the starting
point, I think, should be a recognition from the regulatory policymakers that
not every single transaction must be disclosed and that disclosure, in and
of itself, imposes serious burdens while oftentimes providing little benefit
to the public. That has not been done, so far as I can tell. While
reasonable people could, perhaps, come to a compromise that could satisfy
constitutional scrutiny and provide some public information, that has not been
the approach of those who craft these laws, who continue to require
ridiculous, oppressive requirements, like reporting the name, address, occupation
and employer for someone who buys a box of doughnuts for a political meeting.
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Michael P McDonald
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 11:53 AM
To: _law-election at UCI.edu_ (mailto:law-election at UCI.edu)
Subject: Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
I'll cut to the chase and start this debate where we last left it off. The
current federal disclosure law is an aggregate of $200/candidate per
election. As I said then, a disclosure threshold is reasonable. Many
conservatives on the list also expressed agreement that disclosure thresholds are
reasonable. I'm willing to entertain a higher number, but when I pressed on
what threshold might be agreeable to conservatives, no one was willing to give
a number. Is it $1,000, $1 billion, or what? What contribution level
qualifies as one as a small donor? We can't have a reasonable discussion about
changing policy without that information.
============
Dr. Michael P. McDonald
Associate Professor
George Mason University
4400 University Drive - 3F4
Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
phone: 703-993-4191 (office)
e-mail: _mmcdon at gmu.edu_ (mailto:mmcdon at gmu.edu)
web: _http://elections.gmu.edu_ (http://elections.gmu.edu/)
twitter: @ElectProject
____________________________________
From: Smith, Brad [_BSmith at law.capital.edu_ (mailto:BSmith at law.capital.edu)
]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:41 PM
To: Michael P McDonald; _law-election at UCI.edu_
(mailto:law-election at UCI.edu)
Subject: RE: [EL] Paz Harassment
It is an important "democratic value" that the names and addresses of
smalltime donors such as Holly Paz be made public.
Serious argument, or "straw man"?
I'm going with "straw man," but there may be people who take that argument
seriously.
Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault
Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
614.236.6317
http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx
____________________________________
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[_law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_ (mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu) ] on behalf
of Michael P McDonald [_mmcdon at gmu.edu_ (mailto:mmcdon at gmu.edu) ]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:24 PM
To: _law-election at UCI.edu_ (mailto:law-election at UCI.edu)
Subject: Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
Do you guys ever get tired of punching straw men? No one ever said there
was no political harassment and several people gave examples of it, myself
included. The claim was the harassment *for a campaign donation* was a rare
thing, is terrible, but when weighed against other democratic values should
be properly handled through law enforcement. I don't think Ms. Paz is
being harassed for a campaign donation.
============
Dr. Michael P. McDonald
Associate Professor
George Mason University
4400 University Drive - 3F4
Fairfax, VA 22030-4444
phone: 703-993-4191 (office)
e-mail: _mmcdon at gmu.edu_ (mailto:mmcdon at gmu.edu)
web: _http://elections.gmu.edu_ (http://elections.gmu.edu/)
twitter: @ElectProject
____________________________________
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[_law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_ (mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu) ] on behalf
of Smith, Brad [_BSmith at law.capital.edu_ (mailto:BSmith at law.capital.edu) ]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 2:03 PM
To: Bill Maurer; _law-election at UCI.edu_ (mailto:law-election at UCI.edu)
Subject: Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
Ah, so that explains why the President has urged higher taxes on the
wealthy - he's a captive of his donor base of IRS agents! Thank goodness now we
know. Had I know this 10 months ago, it would certainly have influenced my
vote, and helped me make sense of the campaign.
By the way, Bill - you're not much good at using the databases - I got to
her street address in 25 seconds from the time I started looking, and it
took me that long because I kept hitting the "caps lock" key when I meant to
hit the "tab" key. I'm tempted to publish it here, because, like you say,
it's probably not worth worrying about, and it's important for people to
know. Otherwise, we couldn't be sure it was the right Holly Paz. Besides, most
people making death threats probably don't *really* plan to kill her, they
just want to harass her a bit, and a little harassment for someone is,
well, like Justice Scalia and a few others I could name always say, it's a
small price to pay when the alternative is not knowing which politicians are
beholden to Holly Paz.
Bradley A. Smith
Josiah H. Blackmore II/Shirley M. Nault
Professor of Law
Capital University Law School
303 E. Broad St.
Columbus, OH 43215
614.236.6317
http://law.capital.edu/faculty/bios/bsmith.aspx
____________________________________
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[_law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_ (mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu) ] on behalf
of Bill Maurer [_wmaurer at ij.org_ (mailto:wmaurer at ij.org) ]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 1:32 PM
To: Rick Hasen; _law-election at UCI.edu_ (mailto:law-election at UCI.edu)
Subject: Re: [EL] Paz Harassment
I was wondering how people got Ms. Paz’s private information so they could
engage in the harassment discussed in story, given that I imagine that
most IRS officials are not all that forthcoming about where they live. Then I
did a search for her political donations and—Shazam!—there it was, at
least what state and city she lives in (had she given money in Washington
state, her street address would have been listed too).
However, I’ve been told repeatedly that using this information to harass
people (i) doesn’t happen, (ii) isn’t that bad anyway, and (iii) it’s the
price of political courage, so I guess it’s all okay. Maybe she’ll be able
to get an exemption from reporting now that people have actually
threatened to kill her, but that will depend on whether a judge decides her fear is “
reasonable” in light of the need to “follow the money” right up to where
the yellow police tape starts.
Bill
From: _law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu_
(mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu)
[mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] On Behalf Of Rick Hasen
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:42 PM
To: _law-election at UCI.edu_ (mailto:law-election at UCI.edu)
Subject: [EL] ELB News and Commentary 8/29/13
_“IRS official who scrutinized conservative groups facing harassment,
attorney says”_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54904)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:38 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54904)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_WaPo:_
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/irs-official-who-scrutinized-conservative-groups-facing-harassment-attorney-says/2013/08/28/50577962-0ff
6-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html)
A top Internal Revenue Service official has faced harassment, including
threatening telephone calls and visits to her home, after being singled out
for criticism by Republicans, her lawyer alleges in a letter to lawmakers.
The official, _Holly Paz_
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/06/17/what-did-top-irs-official-holly-paz-tell-congressional-investigator
s-here-are-the-highlights/) , has been on administrative leave since June
in connection with _the controversy_
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-denounces-reported-irs-targeting-of-conservative-groups/2013/05/13/a01
85644-bbdf-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html) over how the IRS scrutinized
conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status. Paz was involved in
subjecting some tea party groups to scrutiny and helped conduct an internal
review of the program, but has not been formally accused of wrongdoing.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54904&title=“
IRS%20official%20who%20scrutinized%20conservative%20groups%20facing%20harassment,%20attorney%20says”&description=)
Posted in _campaign finance_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=10) , _tax
law and election law_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=22)
_Tom Edsall Gets Major Republican Strategists, Top U.S. Political
Scientists to Weigh in On Chances for Republicans to Capture Presidency in 2016_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54902)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:34 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54902)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_Important perspectives_
(http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/28/can-republicans-paint-the-white-house-red/?hp&_r=0) .
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54902&title=Tom%20Edsall%20Gets%20Major%20Republican%20Strategists,%20Top%20U.S.%
20Political%20Scientists%20to%20Weigh%20in%20On%20Chances%20for%20Republican
s%20to%20Capture%20Presidency%20in%202016&descript)
Posted in _campaigns_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=59)
_“Obama: ‘We’re Not Going To Wait For Congress’ To Act On Voting Rights
Act”_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54900)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:28 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54900)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_Video_
(http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/08/28/obama_were_not_going_to_wait_for_congress_to_act_on_voting_rights_act.html) from PBS News
Hour interview.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54900&title=“Obama:%20‘We’re%20Not%20Going%20To%20Wait%20For%20Congress’
%20To%20Act%20On%20Voting%20Rights%20Act”&description=)
Posted in _Department of Justice_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=26) ,
_The Voting Wars_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60) , _Voting Rights
Act_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15)
_“N.C. Lawmakers Meet Raucous Crowd at Charlotte Forum”_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54898)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:26 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54898)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_The backlash begins._
(http://electionlawblog.org/N.C.%20lawmakers%20meet%20raucous%20crowd%20at%20Charlotte%20forum%20%20Read%20more%20here:%20http:/w
ww.charlotteobserver.com/2013/08/28/4271194/nc-lawmakers-meet-raucous-crowd.
html#storylink=cpy)
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54898&title=“N.C.%20Lawmakers%20Meet%20Raucous%20Crowd%20at%20Charlotte%20Forum”
&description=)
Posted in _The Voting Wars_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60)
_“The True Cost of Free Voter I.D. in Texas”_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54896)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:17 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54896)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_This interesting item_ (http://texaselectionlaw.wordpres
s.com/2013/07/25/the-true-cost-of-free-voter-i-d-in-texas/) (and many other interesting
items) appear at the new “Texas Election Law Blog.” The blog is _written by_
(http://texaselectionlaw.wordpress.com/about/) “Joseph Kulhavy – I am a
licensed attorney in the State of Texas, and from October 6, 2004 until July
2, 2013, I was a staff attorney with the Elections Division, Texas Secretary
of State.”
Keep an eye here.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54896&title=“The%20True%20Cost%20of%20Free%20Voter%20I.D.%20in%20Texas”
&description=)
Posted in _The Voting Wars_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60) , _voter
id_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=9) , _Voting Rights Act_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15)
_Other Goings-On in Texas Since The Supreme Court Killed Voting Rights Act
Section 5 Preclearance_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54892)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:11 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54892)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_In Pasadena, TX:_
(http://txredistricting.org/post/58935159956/pasadena-redistricting-moves-draw-questions) “the City of Pasadena in southeast Harris
County voted 5-4 to place a proposition on the November 2013 ballot that,
if approved by voters, would change the city’s current 8 single member
district system of electing members of the city council to a 6-2 system
featuring two at large members_._
(http://txredistricting.org/post/58935159956/pasadena-redistricting-moves-draw-questions) State Sen. Sylvia Garcia, MALDEF,
and the Houston Chronicle have all expressed concerns that the move would
dilute the voting strength of the city’s rapidly growing Hispanic
population.”
In _Galveston, TX: _
(http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Galveston-County-may-run-afoul-of-Voting-Rights-4747681.php) “
Galveston County commissioners have slashed the number of justice of the
peace and constable districts a year after the U.S. Justice Department
blocked a similar plan as discriminatory.”
Yeah, the e_nd of preclearance matters_
(http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/08/north_carolina_s_speedy_vote_suppression_
tactics_show_exactly_why_the_voting.html) . And for those like _James
Taranto _
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324108204579024942693167698.html) who say the Court didn’t really kill Section 5, only the
preclearance provision of section 4, I debunk that claim in my APSA paper (which I’
m presenting tomorrow), _Shelby County and the Illusion of Minimalism._
(http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2291612)
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54892&title=Other%20Goings-On%20in%20Texas%20Since%20The%20Supreme%20Court%20Kill
ed%20Voting%20Rights%20Act%20Section%205%20Preclearance&description=)
Posted in _Supreme Court_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=29) , _Voting
Rights Act_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15)
_Eric Wang on McCutcheon_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54890)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:00 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54890)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_Here_
(http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/28/wang-cutting-the-price-tag-off-free-speech/) , in the Washington Times.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionl
awblog.org/?p=54890&title=Eric%20Wang%20on%20McCutcheon&description=)
Posted in _campaign finance_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=10)
_“Black Republicans try to appropriate Martin Luther King”_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54888)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 8:56 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54888)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
And apparently they _don’t suppor_
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-black-republicans-try-to-appropriate-martin-luther-king/2013/08/
26/2eb47d18-0e99-11e3-bdf6-e4fc677d94a1_story.html) t fixing the Voting
Rights Act:
A similar response greeted Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), who criticized
_the Supreme Court decision_
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/supreme-court-stops-use-of-key-part-of-voting-rights-act/2013/06/25/26888528-dda5-1
1e2-b197-f248b21f94c4_story.html) that invalidated part of the Voting
Rights Act and vowed to repair the law so that it is “impervious to another
challenge that will be filed by the usual suspects. I’m with you on that.”
The light applause suggested that most of those in attendance were not with
him.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54888&title=“
Black%20Republicans%20try%20to%20appropriate%20Martin%20Luther%20King”&description=)
Posted in _Voting Rights Act_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15)
_“Sorority offered free drinks to members to vote in Tuscaloosa City Board
of Education race”_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54886)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 8:54 pm_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54886)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_The Birmingham News reports. (h/t Political Wire)_
(http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/08/28/sorority_girls_offered_free_drinks_to_vote.html#.Uh6P
QVbh_mE.twitter)
Offering payments or incentives for voting is illegal in federal
elections. It is also illegal in some states. (It is illegal in all states to pay
someone to vote for or against a candidate or ballot measure.)
More on this in my article, _Vote Buying. _
(http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=257564)
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54886&title=“
Sorority%20offered%20free%20drinks%20to%20members%20to%20vote%20in%20Tuscaloosa%20City%20Board%20of%20Education%20race”&description=)
Posted in _vote buying_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=43)
_“Colorado: Campaign Finance complaint filed against Morse opponent points
to the hybrid nature of recalls”_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54884)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 10:13 am_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54884)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_This item_
(http://recallelections.blogspot.com/2013/08/colorado-campaign-finance-complaint.html) appears at the Recall Elections Blog.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54884&title=“
Colorado:%20Campaign%20Finance%20complaint%20filed%20against%20Morse%20opponent%20points%20to%20the%20hybrid%20nature%20of%20recalls”
&description=)
Posted in _campaign finance_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=10) ,
_recall elections_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=11)
_“What Today’s Journalists Can Learn From MLK Coverage; In 1963,
newspapers tried to present ‘both sides’ of the civil rights struggle. Modern
reporters should know better — but when it comes to voting rights, they often
make the same mistake.”_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54882)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 10:11 am_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54882)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_Andrew Cohen writes_
(http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/08/what-todays-journalists-can-learn-from-mlk-coverage/278095/) for The
Atlantic.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54882&title=“What%20Today’
s%20Journalists%20Can%20Learn%20From%20MLK%20Coverage;%20In%201963,%20newspapers%20tried%20to%20present%20‘both%20sides’
%20of%20the%20civil%20right)
Posted in _The Voting Wars_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60)
_“Republicans Admit Voter ID Laws Are Aimed at Democratic Voters”_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54880)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 9:17 am_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54880)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_Jamelle Bouie writes_
(http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/08/28/republicans-admit-voter-id-laws-are-aimed-at-democratic-voters.html?utm_source=
feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+thedailybeast/politics+(The+Da
ily+Beast+-+Politics)) for The Daily Beast.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54880&title=“
Republicans%20Admit%20Voter%20ID%20Laws%20Are%20Aimed%20at%20Democratic%20Voters”&description=)
Posted in _The Voting Wars_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60)
_“King’s Deferred ‘Dream’ of Democracy”_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54878)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 8:56 am_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54878)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
_Janai Nelson writes_
(http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/08/27/kings-deferred-dream-of-democracy/) for Reuters Opinion.
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54878&title=“King’s%20Deferred%20‘Dream’%20of%20Democracy”&description=)
Posted in _Voting Rights Act_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=15)
_An Open Letter to Jonathan Tobin on Voter Fraud Allegations_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54875)
Posted on _August 28, 2013 8:32 am_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54875)
by _Rick Hasen_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3)
Mr Tobin,
Is it possible for you to stop the _bait and switch_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=48568) ? No one I know who has studied this issue says there’s no
voter fraud (hence, the misleading title of your piece: _Are You Sure There’
s No Voter Fraud_
(http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/08/27/are-you-sure-theres-no-voter-fraud-voter-id-detroi/) ?). It happens, especially with
absentee ballots.
Instead, the claim is that there’s almost no voter impersonation fraud—
the main type of fraud a voter id law would be designed to prevent. For my
book The Voting Wars I tried to find a single instance where an election was
thrown into question _since 1980_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=42150) by
such fraud. I _could not find_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=19560) a
single example. I found lots of examples of absentee ballot fraud, and
election officials committing fraud. But because impersonation fraud is such a
dumb and inefficient way to steal an election, it is unsurprising that it
doesn’t happen. You offer no such examples in your writing; just innuendo.
And please don’t tell me that this fraud is both widespread and impossible
to detect (to paraphrase Colin Powell’s recent remarks). There’s not a
_single credible academic_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?p=42251) who would
agree. We have some _comparative numbers from News21_
(http://electionlawblog.org/?p=48568) on prosecutions for these kinds of crimes. Absentee ballot
fraud is a real problem. Impersonation fraud is negligible. There’s no
reason to believe that impersonation fraud would be harder to catch. In fact,
because it would involve a lot of people going to polling places claiming
to be someone else, it would be easier to catch.
So spare me the unsubstantiated allegations. And if you are really serious
that voter fraud is a major problem, let’s see you get behind and advocate
for the elimination of no excuse absentee balloting before you attack
phantom targets.
Sincerely,
Rick Hasen
(http://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http://electionlawblog.org/?p=54875&title=An%20Open%20Letter%20to%20Jonathan%20Tobin%20on%20Voter%20Fraud%20All
egations&description=)
Posted in _fraudulent fraud squad_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=8) ,
_The Voting Wars_ (http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60)
--
Rick Hasen
Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
UC Irvine School of Law
401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
Irvine, CA 92697-8000
949.824.3072 - office
949.824.0495 - fax
_rhasen at law.uci.edu_ (mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu)
http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/
_http://electionlawblog.org_ (http://electionlawblog.org/)
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--
Rick Hasen
Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
UC Irvine School of Law
401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
Irvine, CA 92697-8000
949.824.3072 - office
949.824.0495 - fax
_rhasen at law.uci.edu_ (mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu)
http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/
_http://electionlawblog.org_ (http://electionlawblog.org/)
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