[EL] Uh oh, Rick...
Rick Hasen
rhasen at law.uci.edu
Fri Oct 24 16:36:28 PDT 2014
In actuality I have seen many more instances of the departed having
votes cast for them via absentee ballot (usually the widow/er or child
of the deceased) than examples of people showing up at polling places
claiming to be a dead person. When these claims are investigated, the
most common explanation is that a person signed on the wrong line in the
poll book.
On 10/24/14, 4:32 PM, Steve Hoersting wrote:
> * The last sentence means Drudge and others are getting the word out:
> There is another side to the predominant meme.
>
> * I will check out your book (again. I skimmed parts a year ago, or
> so. Well written; again, congrats).
>
> And a question, which you must have addressed in your book, and may
> hit out of the park, if you can: If a departed voter remains on the
> rolls, and an individual is presented to the poll worker as the listed
> voter, and the poll worker cannot or does not ask the individual for
> ID, how would that fraud be detected? By what mechanism would we ever
> detect *significant* fraudulent transactions of that kind? (Please
> don't say signature match).
>
> And wouldn't vote-by-mail and absentee balloting make matching the
> departed-voter-name and a-live-ballot easy beyond words? Easy enough
> to turn battleground states across the land.
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu
> <mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>> wrote:
>
> Not sure I understand your snark. When I looked into the question
> of non-citizen voting for my book, the rates of proven non-citizen
> voting appeared very low. Now along comes a study which has a
> higher number. I don't have an opinion yet on how strong the study
> is because (1) I haven't yet read it and (2) those who have much
> greater methodological sophistication about these things than I do
> will surely weigh in on the question. I think that is a prudent
> response to this study.
>
> In terms of outright dissembling, you can read chapter 2 of my
> book, which gives some examples.
>
> I do not understand your final sentence.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> On 10/24/14, 2:15 PM, Steve Hoersting wrote:
>> So "new stud[ies] appear[] to find a much higher incidence of
>> non-citizen voting than you've previously seen" and you "look
>> forward" to hearing what others think of the methodology, and
>> still you allege "outright dissembling"?
>>
>> Okay. I see. Just trying to keep up.
>>
>> But if members of the Anti-Fraud Squad have dared dissemble, they
>> had better discover they are rapidly losing control of
>> conventional wisdom and the public debate.
>>
>> Good weekend. Best,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Rick Hasen <rhasen at law.uci.edu
>> <mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> I linked to the the story Drudge links to earlier today on my
>> blog. (See the end of this message). I have always said (and
>> say in my book) that non-citizen voting is a real, though
>> relatively small, problem (unlike impersonation fraud, which
>> is essentially a blip). For this reason I have supported
>> efforts to remove non-citizens from voting rolls, though not
>> in the period right before an election when errors are more
>> likely to disenfranchise voters.
>>
>> The new study appears to find a much higher incidence of
>> non-citizen voting than I've previously seen, and I look
>> forward to hearing whether people think the methodology in
>> this paper is sound. But even if it is sound, this would not
>> justify the hysteria and nonsense (and in some cases outright
>> dissembling) coming from some of the people you have listed
>> below.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> “Could non-citizens decide the November election?”
>> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=67408>
>>
>> Posted onOctober 24, 2014 12:27 pm
>> <http://electionlawblog.org/?p=67408>byRick Hasen
>> <http://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>>
>> Jesse Richman and David Earnes
>> <http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/10/24/could-non-citizens-decide-the-november-election/>t
>> at the Monkey Cage with some provocative findings on the
>> extent of non-citizen voting. I will be very interested
>> to hear what others think of the methodology in
>> thisforthcoming article
>> <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0261379414000973>in
>> Electoral Studies.
>>
>> Share
>> <https://www.addtoany.com/share_save#url=http%3A%2F%2Felectionlawblog.org%2F%3Fp%3D67408&title=%E2%80%9CCould%20non-citizens%20decide%20the%20November%20election%3F%E2%80%9D&description=>
>> Posted inelection administration
>> <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=18>,The Voting Wars
>> <http://electionlawblog.org/?cat=60>
>>
>>
>> On 10/24/14, 1:51 PM, Steve Hoersting wrote:
>>> It's getting tougher and tougher to dismiss and discredit
>>> John Fund, Hans van Spakovsky, James O'Keefe, J. Christian
>>> Adams, Catherine Engelbrecht and Rush Limbaugh:
>>>
>>> http://drudgereport.com/
>>>
>>> --
>>> Stephen M. Hoersting
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Law-election mailing list
>>> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu <mailto:Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu>
>>> http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election
>>
>> --
>> Rick Hasen
>> Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
>> UC Irvine School of Law
>> 401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
>> Irvine, CA 92697-8000
>> 949.824.3072 <tel:949.824.3072> - office
>> 949.824.0495 <tel:949.824.0495> - fax
>> rhasen at law.uci.edu <mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>
>> http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/
>> http://electionlawblog.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stephen M. Hoersting
>
> --
> Rick Hasen
> Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
> UC Irvine School of Law
> 401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
> Irvine, CA 92697-8000
> 949.824.3072 <tel:949.824.3072> - office
> 949.824.0495 <tel:949.824.0495> - fax
> rhasen at law.uci.edu <mailto:rhasen at law.uci.edu>
> http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/
> http://electionlawblog.org
>
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen M. Hoersting
--
Rick Hasen
Chancellor's Professor of Law and Political Science
UC Irvine School of Law
401 E. Peltason Dr., Suite 1000
Irvine, CA 92697-8000
949.824.3072 - office
949.824.0495 - fax
rhasen at law.uci.edu
http://www.law.uci.edu/faculty/full-time/hasen/
http://electionlawblog.org
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