[EL] Al Jazeera America article on voter suppression

[Schultz, David A.]

Bill:

Whatever good things you said in you e-mail you retracted effectively with
your final sentence.

On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 3:07 PM, Bill Maurer <wmaurer at ij.org> wrote:

>  Professor,
>
>
>
> I agree, which is why I’ve fought intrusive disclosure laws for years.
> This is not simply a question of people shouting “Koch!” or “Soros!,”
> however.  This is the outlet of a country where its citizens lack the most
> basic civil liberties.  That struck me as an unusual, and
> counterproductive, place to make an argument about the franchise and raises
> the question of why they would publish an article about problems with the
> franchise in the U.S. when they have no franchise at all in the outlet’s
> country of origin.  Note that I’ve not said that I disagree with you
> because I disagree with your position.  In fact, I’ve not said whether I
> agree or disagree, or a little of both.  In that regard, I would be
> similarly concerned with someone who is anti-regulation of campaign
> financing making an argument in any forum provided by any government that
> does not permit free and fair elections.  The state-run outlets of many
> countries may contain articles with excellent points about civil liberties
> in the U.S.—when they address the mote in their own eye, I will take those
> points more seriously.  That’s why I take articles about civil liberties in
> the CBC, the BBC, or the NHK seriously.
>
>
>
> Also, I don’t technically think that that is the ad hominem fallacy as ad
> hominem is not fallacious when it concerns actions that contradict the
> subject’s words—to use an example from formal logic class.
>
>
>
> I also share your concern with rhetoric and I assume you share my negative
> reaction to people using over-the-top phrases when discussing a complex
> topic like voting rights.
>
>
>
> In sum, I read your article about the franchise.  I would have taken your
> points more to heart if they weren’t made in a forum originating from a
> country where no one can vote.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* Schultz, David A. [mailto:dschultz at hamline.edu]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 12:21 PM
> *To:* Bill Maurer
> *Cc:* George Korbel; John W. Farrell; law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Al Jazeera America article on voter suppression
>
>
>
> Alas, the discourse on this listserv seems no better than the dreary state
> of political debate and journalism that dominates American politics  today.
>
> Take any formal logic class or one on debating and one of the most basic
> rules is that ad hominems are not  good arguments.  By that, you do not
> refute someone's argument simply by calling them a name or by dismissing
> their position by saying that work for such and such group or are a member
> of some particular organization.  Instead, you need to specific the flaws
> in someone's argument, not impune  someone's character, to refute an
> argument.  Essentially that is what I see going on here--challenging the Al
> Jazerra  article or my op-ed by simply dismissing them by saying who they
> represent or who they are owned by.  This is such a poor way to argue.
> However, this is the sorry state of American politics, but I expect more
> from members of this listserv.
>
> One of the things so wrong with the quality of political discourse in
> America is confusing name calling, identity, or membership with logical
> reasoning.  Democrats simply dismiss claims by Republicans as wrong by
> saying what do you expect from the GOP.  Or vice-versa.  We see  people
> simply call people names or insult them, using that as the last or maybe
> first resort argument instead of engaging the debate on merits.  We teach
> our children--at least I hope we still do--that name calling is wrong.  The
> law supposedly tells us that guilt by association is wrong.  Yet there
> seems something powerful in human nature to refute by dismissal or name
> calling, and such a trend seems to be encouraged or at least dominates
> current political discourse.
>
> Over the years I have debated many people, including several on this
> listserv.    I do my best not to resort to these tactics but often see such
> reciprocity not returned either in debates with me or others.  I see simply
> dismissals or labeling used as wins to win arguments.  It reminds me when
> Lucy used to call Charlie Brown a "blockhead."  Even blockheads can be
> right and simply calling them blockheads does not win the argument.  It may
> be a lot to create enemies and polarize politics, but it is not
> constructive at all as a way to debate.  I still old-fashioned enough to
> believe in the John Stuart Mill idea that we inquiry to find the truth.
> Argument by ad hominem is not the way to do that.  Can't this listserv do
> better than that?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Bill Maurer <wmaurer at ij.org> wrote:
>
> If this is so straightforward and objective, and the network and its
> owners are simply acting on a desire to expand the ability of people to
> vote, please point out al Jazeera pieces on the complete disenfranchisement
> of 2 million Qataris.  That would seem to be an obvious issue deserving
> attention from an internationally respected news source.
>
>
>
> I wasn’t put off by his exercise of the First Amendment, btw.  I was put
> off by the rhetoric.  I fully support any author’s First Amendment right to
> be unpersuasive.
>
>
>
> *From:* George Korbel [mailto:korbellaw at hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:29 AM
> *To:* Bill Maurer
> *Cc:* Greg P. Magarian; Jeff Hauser; John W. Farrell; law-election at uci.edu
>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Al Jazeera America article on voter suppression
>
>
>
> Dr Maurer
>
>
>
> Well the article of which complai was written by a professor at the
> Hamline University law school in Minneapolis. I cannot conceive of
> something that is more Apple pie than a professor at a Midwestern mid
> American twin cities law school. The author is a member of this board and
> the fact that he expressed his views in an op ed in an internationally
> respected news source hardly associates his views with a middle eastern
> royal family.   The middle west is not the Middle East.
>
>
>
> And as far as you being off put by his exercise of the first
> amendment--that is the beauty of the concept of our founding fathers.  That
> pesky first amendment sometimes puts us all off.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2014, at 12:23 PM, Bill Maurer <wmaurer at ij.org> wrote:
>
>  I also read the story.  I found it interesting but was put off by its
> editorial rhetoric.
>
>
>
> As for the independence of the stories the network runs, the Guardian
> reported on this issue recently.
>
>
>
>
> http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/sep/30/al-jazeera-independence-questioned-qatar
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg P. Magarian [mailto:gpmagarian at wulaw.wustl.edu
> <gpmagarian at wulaw.wustl.edu>]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 9:58 AM
> *To:* Jeff Hauser; Bill Maurer
> *Cc:* John W. Farrell; law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* RE: [EL] Al Jazeera America article on voter suppression
>
>
>
> You’re ascribing a news story, wholesale, to the news outlet’s owners.
> The byline on the story credits Greg Palast, a U.S.-born journalist who
> primarily works in the U.K.  Palast is not a member of the Qatari monarchy.
>
>
>
> At a structural level, concerns about media ownership are, IMHO, quite
> valid.  If we’re talking about a particular story, written by a respected,
> widely-published member of a profession that prizes operational
> independence, questions based on ownership might still be valid.  But a
> question and a sweeping dismissal, entirely free of substantive analysis,
> are two different things.
>
>
>
> If you think the story is wrong on its merits, say why.  If you have a
> basis for arguing that the owners of al Jazeera exercise stifling editorial
> control over news stories, share it.  For that matter, you might explain
> why, even if we ascribe Palast’s story to the Qatari monarchy, an entity
> that doesn’t practice democracy can’t offer a useful critique of democratic
> practices.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
> mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Jeff
> Hauser
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 11:44 AM
> *To:* Bill Maurer
> *Cc:* John W. Farrell; law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Al Jazeera America article on voter suppression
>
>
>
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2011/07/11/saudi-investor-alwaleed-news-corps-news-of-the-world-was-a-rotten-apple/
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Bill Maurer <wmaurer at ij.org> wrote:
>
> The Unification Church is not a country.  The more proper analogy would be
> whether I found articles from them about theology persuasive.
>
>
>
> I would think that anybody would find it laughable to be lectured on the
> narrowness of our franchise by a media outlet owned by a royal family that
> does not permit any elections (at least as far as I can tell).  Regardless
> of where one stands on voter ID, I can’t take criticism by absolute
> monarchs on how we conduct elections seriously.
>
>
>
> *From:* John W. Farrell [mailto:jfarrell at mccandlishlawyers.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 9:25 AM
> *To:* Bill Maurer
> *Cc:* Schultz, David A.; law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Al Jazeera America article on voter suppression
>
>
>
> Do you ask the same question about stories in the Washington Times?
>
>
>
> *John W. Farrell *
> Attorney at Law
>
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> This email is not intended, nor shall it be deemed, unless otherwise
> expressly provided in writing, to (1) constitute or provide legal advice or
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> with the firm or me; (2) create an attorney-client relationship; or (3)
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>
>
>
> On Oct 29, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Bill Maurer wrote:
>
>
>
> A story on voting rights from a media outlet owned by the royal family of
> Qatar raises the question of how broad was the franchise that voted them
> into office?
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
> mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Schultz,
> David A.
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2014 6:10 AM
> *To:* law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* [EL] Al Jazeera America article on voter suppression
>
>
>
> A good article today in  Al Jazeera America on voter suppression along
> with  my accompanying op-ed on the topic.
>
>  http://projects.aljazeera.com/2014/double-voters/index.html
>
>
> http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/10/2014-midterm-electionsgopvotersuppressiondemocrats.html
>
> --
>
> David Schultz, Professor
> Editor, Journal of Public Affairs Education (JPAE)
> Hamline University
> Department of Political Science
>
> 1536 Hewitt Ave
>
> MS B 1805
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> 651.523.2858 (voice)
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> Twitter:  @ProfDSchultz
> My latest book:  Election Law and Democratic Theory, Ashgate Publishing
> http://www.ashgate.com/isbn/9780754675433
> FacultyRow SuperProfessor, 2012, 2013, 2014
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> --
>
> David Schultz, Professor
> Editor, Journal of Public Affairs Education (JPAE)
> Hamline University
> Department of Political Science
>
> 1536 Hewitt Ave
>
> MS B 1805
> St. Paul, Minnesota 55104
> 651.523.2858 (voice)
> 651.523.3170 (fax)
> http://davidschultz.efoliomn.com/
> http://works.bepress.com/david_schultz/
> http://schultzstake.blogspot.com/
> Twitter:  @ProfDSchultz
> My latest book:  Election Law and Democratic Theory, Ashgate Publishing
> http://www.ashgate.com/isbn/9780754675433
> FacultyRow SuperProfessor, 2012, 2013, 2014
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-- 
David Schultz, Professor
Editor, Journal of Public Affairs Education (JPAE)
Hamline University
Department of Political Science
1536 Hewitt Ave
MS B 1805
St. Paul, Minnesota 55104
651.523.2858 (voice)
651.523.3170 (fax)
http://davidschultz.efoliomn.com/
http://works.bepress.com/david_schultz/
http://schultzstake.blogspot.com/
Twitter:  @ProfDSchultz
My latest book:  Election Law and Democratic Theory, Ashgate Publishing
http://www.ashgate.com/isbn/9780754675433
FacultyRow SuperProfessor, 2012, 2013, 2014
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