[EL] A 16 year old voted?
Rob Richie
rr at fairvote.org
Thu Nov 19 06:50:48 PST 2015
Thought I'd share that in the United Kingdom, the House of Lords voted to
extend voting rights to 16-year-olds for the upcoming EU referendum. Still
needs to be negotiated with the House of Commons. See
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/supporters-giving-vote-16-plus-10465654
This was done for the independence referendum in Scotland, and the very
positive reaction to how it went contributed to Scottish parliament (with
approval of David Cameron's government) to vote unanimously to make it a
permanent change for all future Scottish elections.
Rob Richie
On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Carl Klarner <carl.klarner at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi David,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the interesting discussion about lowering the voting age.
>
>
>
> Reducing the voting age would plausibly have consequences for the
> political power of racial/ethnic minorities, and for the political power of
> those in poverty.
>
>
>
> For every age bracket you go down, the poverty rate goes up.
>
>
>
> According to the 2014 American Community Survey 1-year average, the
> poverty rate for 16-17 year olds was 18.3%, while the poverty rate for
> those 18 and over was 13.6%. (The poverty rate for 15 and under was
> 22.1%) These statistics are based on computations from Table B17001.
>
>
>
> To a large extent this is an aspect of race / ethnicity being correlated
> with poverty, but even among non-Latino whites, 11.4% of 16-17 year olds
> were in poverty, while 10.3 of those 18 and over were. (13.2% of those 15
> and under were in poverty.) These statistics are based on computations
> from Tables B17001 and B17001H.
>
>
>
> (I couldn't find age, poverty status, and citizenship status breakdowns on
> the Census site.)
>
>
>
> Next, among citizens, children are much more likely to be non-white or
> white and Latino than adults. Among citizen children (age 17 and under),
> 47.3% are either non-white or Latino (or both). Among citizen adults,
> 30.3% are either non-white or Latino. These statistics are based on
> computations from Tables B05003 and B05003H. (I couldn’t find breakdowns
> by smaller age brackets for citizen/non-citizen, and race/ethnicity.)
>
>
>
> Carl
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Kogan, Vladimir <kogan.18 at osu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> This seems to speak more to arbitrary nature of the age of consent laws
>> rather than the wisdom of allowing 16- and 17-year olds to vote. So the
>> tension could be easily resolved by lowering the age of consent laws to 16
>> (as a plurality of states have already done).
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
>> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *George
>> Waters
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2015 12:29 PM
>> *To:* Green, Rebecca; law-election at uci.edu
>>
>> *Cc:* Hamilton, Vivian E
>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] A 16 year old voted?
>>
>>
>>
>> In California, the age of consent to sexual intercourse is 18. Allowing
>> 16- and 17-year olds to vote would seem to create a tension with the
>> statutory rape law.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> George Waters
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
>> mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
>> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Green,
>> Rebecca
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2015 6:41 AM
>> *To:* law-election at uci.edu
>> *Cc:* Hamilton, Vivian E
>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] A 16 year old voted?
>>
>>
>>
>> My colleague at William & Mary Law School, Vivian Hamilton, has written
>> thoughtfully on this issue. See, Vivian Hamilton, "Democratic Inclusion,
>> Cognitive Development, and the Age of Electoral Majority," 77 *Brooklyn
>> L. Rev*. 1 (2012), available here
>> <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2086875>. She sets
>> voting age norms in a global context; reviews neuroscience literature’s
>> contribution to cognitive competencies of mid-adolescents; and concludes
>> that, absent other legitimate bases for exclusion, the democratic
>> presumption of inclusion obliges a downward adjustment to the age of
>> electoral majority.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Rebecca Green
>>
>> Professor of Practice
>>
>> Co-Director, Election Law Program
>>
>> William & Mary Law School
>>
>> 757-221-3851
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *<law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on behalf of
>> Josh Douglas <joshuadouglas at uky.edu>
>> *Date: *Friday, November 13, 2015 at 12:22 AM
>> *To: *Rob Richie <rr at fairvote.org>
>> *Cc: *"law-election at uci.edu" <law-election at uci.edu>
>> *Subject: *Re: [EL] A 16 year old voted?
>>
>>
>>
>> Spurred by this conversation, and the fact that I am guest blogging on
>> PrawfsBlawg this month, I just posted some initial thoughts from my
>> research into this question of municipalities lowering the voting age, and
>> local ordinances on the right to vote more generally. You can find it
>> here
>> <http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2015/11/should-16-and-17-year-olds-be-allowed-to-vote.html>.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In particular, the post highlights the main thesis of this
>> work-in-progress: "localism is perhaps the best path for broader change on
>> voting rights, given that historically, expansion of the right to vote has
>> come through piecemeal, local rules. Therefore, municipalities should
>> enact local laws expanding the franchise, which will have a significant
>> effect in the long run in both securing voting rights for more people and
>> making our democracy stronger nationwide."
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Rob Richie <rr at fairvote.org> wrote:
>>
>> FairVote collects various resources on the issue here, including links to
>> info from other groups working on it. It includes good evidence about how
>> 16 is a better age for a "first vote" than 18 or 19 due to greater
>> likelihood of the citizen being in a community they know and supportive
>> environment (school, family, peers). It also has a link to an important
>> report from Scotland about its introduction there in the independence
>> referendum that looks at the evidence rigorously and contributed to both
>> Scotland voting unanimously to extend it to all elections and the UK
>> seemingly heading toward 16-year-olds voting in the referendum on the EU.
>> See
>>
>>
>> http://www.fairvote.org/reforms/right-to-vote-amendment/lowering-the-voting-age/
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that some studies suggest that someone who can first vote when
>> exactly 18 is more likely to vote than someone who can first vote when 18
>> and a month, and so on with decreasing rates for several years -- this
>> underscores the point about having a lower voting age will increase turnout
>> in "first vote opportunities" and studies show that this in turn
>> contributes toward greater likelihood to vote over time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Some folks may be interested to know many states allow citizens who have
>> relatively recently turned 17 to help choose our next president in
>> primaries. See states with 17-year-old primary voting here.
>>
>>
>> http://www.fairvote.org/reforms/universal-voter-registration/17-year-old-primary-voting-2/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Josh Douglas <joshuadouglas at uky.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Prior to the discussion on this list serv, I had began a new project on
>> the "local right to vote," looking at various franchise-enhancing measures
>> that have passed at the municipal level. This follows on my work on the U.S.
>> constitutional right to vote
>> <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1079895> and state
>> constitutional right to vote
>> <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2234762>. My
>> research so far is preliminary, and it will look at 16- and 17-year old
>> voting, non-citizen voting, and the like. I have not found any legal
>> scholarship on the topic, but there have been various news stories about
>> the two Maryland towns that have lowered the voting age, as well as a few
>> cities (including San Francisco) debating the issue. Here are some
>> relevant links:
>>
>>
>>
>> Maryland towns:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/10/us/politics/students-in-maryland-test-civic-participation-and-win-right-to-vote.html?_r=0
>>
>>
>> Proposal in San Francisco:
>> http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/youths-seek-to-lower-voting-age-to-16-in-sf/Content?oid=2916012
>>
>> But won’t be on ballot until at least 2016:
>> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Plan-to-allow-16-year-olds-to-vote-won-t-be-on-6314581.php
>>
>>
>>
>> DC proposal to allow 16-year-olds to vote in presidential elections:
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/16-year-olds-in-dc-could-vote-for-president-in-2016-under-proposal/2015/11/03/3175fede-825d-11e5-8ba6-cec48b74b2a7_story.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There is also some scholarship among family scholars about allowing
>> "children" to vote, but no systematic analysis on voting and elections, as
>> far as I can tell. (I don't know if there are any political science
>> studies on the topic.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Give me a few months and I'll have something more advanced for you!
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joshua A. Douglas
>>
>> Robert G. Lawson & William H. Fortune Associate Professor of Law
>>
>> University of Kentucky College of Law
>>
>> 620 S. Limestone
>>
>> Lexington, KY 40506
>>
>> (859) 257-4935
>>
>> joshuadouglas at uky.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 7:04 PM, David Adamany <adamany at temple.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I was not aware until today's postings of serious discussion to lower the
>> voting age to 16. Can anyone point me to a reliable summary of the
>> activities and arguments surrounding this issue?
>>
>>
>>
>> My initial reaction is to wonder about the political atmosphere for such
>> a change. When Congress voted to submit the 26th Amendment to the states
>> we have a very large number of veterans who had gone to war when there was
>> a draft. (Some veterans volunteered of course, but most, I believe, were
>> draftees.) Those would have been veterans of World War I, World War II,
>> the Korean War, and the war in Viet Nam. And my rough estimate of their
>> number (subject to correction by more knowledgeable readers) was between 21
>> and 24 million. A great many would have been under 21 years of age at the
>> time they were drafted or volunteered (but all would have been over 18).
>> Hence, the argument: old enough to fight, old enough to vote.
>>
>>
>>
>> What might be the constituency for a 16-year old vote that would have the
>> natural appeal to Congress and the public?
>>
>>
>>
>> And has anyone given thought to just how many people would be added to
>> the electorate and how many to the actual vote by such a change. My
>> initial reaction was that parents who vote regularly would be most likely
>> to facilitate the registration of their 16 and 17 year old children. On
>> second thought, it occurred to me that voter registration among that age
>> cohort might be much larger than at 18 years old because registration would
>> be very likely to occur in high schools.
>>
>>
>>
>> A final thought: If registration were quite high, for the reason above,
>> would voting also be considerably higher than among 18 to 22 year
>> olds? The latter group are often on the move residentially and hence do
>> not register to vote. The younger cohort, by contrast, are more likely to
>> be residentially stable and hence not to be disqualified from voting by
>> various registration requirements. Moreover, to the extent that school
>> buildings are still the site of polling places in many communities, 16 and
>> 17 year olds might have a quite high turnout rate as compared to those
>> slightly older. If these many surmises are correct, there would be
>> increased potential for changed election results.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am utterly devoid of evidence on these matters, but the thought of a 16
>> old vote rule certainly provokes my speculative tendencies.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone suggest some serious study of any of those issues: the
>> seriousness of the prospects for such a change, the effect on voter
>> registration and turnout, and the potential impact on election outcomes?
>> I'm sure that members of state legislatures and Congress will be alert to
>> such implications and will, at the same time, not be faced with the "old
>> enough to fight, old enough to vote" pressures that surrounded the 26th
>> Amendment.
>>
>>
>>
>> David Adamany
>>
>> Laura Carnell Professor of Law
>>
>> and Political Science, and
>>
>> Chancellor
>>
>> 1810 Liacouras Walk, Ste 330
>>
>> Temple University
>>
>> Philadelphia, PA 19122
>>
>> (215) 204-9278
>>
>>
>>
>> David Adamany
>>
>> Laura Carnell Professor of Law
>>
>> and Political Science, and
>>
>> Chancellor
>>
>> 1810 Liacouras Walk, Ste 330
>>
>> Temple University
>>
>> Philadelphia, PA 19122
>>
>> (215) 204-9278
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>> --
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Rob Richie
>> Executive Director, FairVote
>> 6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 240
>> Takoma Park, MD 20912
>> rr at fairvote.org (301) 270-4616 http://www.fairvote.org
>> *FairVote Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/FairVoteReform>* *FairVote
>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/fairvote>* My Twitter
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Joshua A. Douglas
>>
>> Robert G. Lawson & William H. Fortune Associate Professor of Law
>>
>> University of Kentucky College of Law
>>
>> 620 S. Limestone
>>
>> Lexington, KY 40506
>>
>> (859) 257-4935
>>
>> joshuadouglas at uky.edu
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Dr. Carl Klarner
>
> Academic / Political Consultant
>
> Klarnerpolitics.com
>
> Former Associate Professor of Political Science
>
> Carl.Klarner at gmail.com
>
> Cell: 812-514-9060
>
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Richie
Executive Director, FairVote
6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 240
Takoma Park, MD 20912
rr at fairvote.org (301) 270-4616 http://www.fairvote.org
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