[EL] A 16 year old voted?

Fri Nov 27 13:46:30 PST 2015

Just to add to this discussion of lowering the voting age, I just learned
that Cambridge is having a Participatory Budgeting election where anyone 12
and over may vote.  See here:
http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2015/11/even-12-year-olds-can-vote.html

Now back to some turkey and apple pie leftovers!

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Rob Richie <rr at fairvote.org> wrote:

> Thought I'd share that in the United Kingdom, the House of Lords voted to
> extend voting rights to 16-year-olds for the upcoming EU referendum. Still
> needs to be negotiated with the House of Commons. See
>
> http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/supporters-giving-vote-16-plus-10465654
>
> This was  done for the independence referendum in Scotland, and the very
> positive reaction to how  it went contributed to Scottish parliament (with
> approval of David Cameron's government) to vote unanimously to make it a
> permanent change for all future Scottish elections.
>
> Rob Richie
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Carl Klarner <carl.klarner at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi David,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the interesting discussion about lowering the voting age.
>>
>>
>>
>> Reducing the voting age would plausibly have consequences for the
>> political power of racial/ethnic minorities, and for the political power of
>> those in poverty.
>>
>>
>>
>> For every age bracket you go down, the poverty rate goes up.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to the 2014 American Community Survey 1-year average, the
>> poverty rate for 16-17 year olds was 18.3%, while the poverty rate for
>> those 18 and over was 13.6%.  (The poverty rate for 15 and under was
>> 22.1%)  These statistics are based on computations from Table B17001.
>>
>>
>>
>> To a large extent this is an aspect of race / ethnicity being correlated
>> with poverty, but even among non-Latino whites, 11.4% of 16-17 year olds
>> were in poverty, while 10.3 of those 18 and over were.  (13.2% of those 15
>> and under were in poverty.)  These statistics are based on computations
>> from Tables B17001 and B17001H.
>>
>>
>>
>> (I couldn't find age, poverty status, and citizenship status breakdowns
>> on the Census site.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Next, among citizens, children are much more likely to be non-white or
>> white and Latino than adults.  Among citizen children (age 17 and under),
>> 47.3% are either non-white or Latino (or both).  Among citizen adults,
>> 30.3% are either non-white or Latino.  These statistics are based on
>> computations from Tables B05003 and B05003H.  (I couldn’t find breakdowns
>> by smaller age brackets for citizen/non-citizen, and race/ethnicity.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Kogan, Vladimir <kogan.18 at osu.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This seems to speak more to arbitrary nature of the age of consent laws
>>> rather than the wisdom of allowing 16- and 17-year olds to vote. So the
>>> tension could be easily resolved by lowering the age of consent laws to 16
>>> (as a plurality of states have already done).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [mailto:
>>> law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu] *On Behalf Of *George
>>> Waters
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2015 12:29 PM
>>> *To:* Green, Rebecca; law-election at uci.edu
>>>
>>> *Cc:* Hamilton, Vivian E
>>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] A 16 year old voted?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In California, the age of consent to sexual intercourse is 18.  Allowing
>>> 16- and 17-year olds to vote would seem to create a tension with the
>>> statutory rape law.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> George Waters
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu [
>>> mailto:law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu
>>> <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu>] *On Behalf Of *Green,
>>> Rebecca
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 13, 2015 6:41 AM
>>> *To:* law-election at uci.edu
>>> *Cc:* Hamilton, Vivian E
>>> *Subject:* Re: [EL] A 16 year old voted?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My colleague at William & Mary Law School, Vivian Hamilton, has written
>>> thoughtfully on this issue. See, Vivian Hamilton, "Democratic Inclusion,
>>> Cognitive Development, and the Age of Electoral Majority," 77 *Brooklyn
>>> L. Rev*. 1 (2012), available here
>>> <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2086875>. She sets
>>> voting age norms in a global context; reviews neuroscience literature’s
>>> contribution to cognitive competencies of mid-adolescents; and concludes
>>> that, absent other legitimate bases for exclusion, the democratic
>>> presumption of inclusion obliges a downward adjustment to the age of
>>> electoral majority.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rebecca
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Rebecca Green
>>>
>>> Professor of Practice
>>>
>>> Co-Director, Election Law Program
>>>
>>> William & Mary Law School
>>>
>>> 757-221-3851
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *<law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> on behalf of
>>> Josh Douglas <joshuadouglas at uky.edu>
>>> *Date: *Friday, November 13, 2015 at 12:22 AM
>>> *To: *Rob Richie <rr at fairvote.org>
>>> *Cc: *"law-election at uci.edu" <law-election at uci.edu>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [EL] A 16 year old voted?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Spurred by this conversation, and the fact that I am guest blogging on
>>> PrawfsBlawg this month, I just posted some initial thoughts from my
>>> research into this question of municipalities lowering the voting age, and
>>> local ordinances on the right to vote more generally.  You can find it
>>> here
>>> <http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/2015/11/should-16-and-17-year-olds-be-allowed-to-vote.html>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In particular, the post highlights the main thesis of this
>>> work-in-progress:  "localism is perhaps the best path for broader change on
>>> voting rights, given that historically, expansion of the right to vote has
>>> come through piecemeal, local rules.  Therefore, municipalities should
>>> enact local laws expanding the franchise, which will have a significant
>>> effect in the long run in both securing voting rights for more people and
>>> making our democracy stronger nationwide."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Rob Richie <rr at fairvote.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> FairVote collects various resources on the issue here, including links
>>> to info from other groups working on it. It includes good evidence about
>>> how 16 is a better age for a "first vote" than 18 or 19 due to greater
>>> likelihood of the citizen being in a community they know and supportive
>>> environment (school, family, peers). It also has a link to an important
>>> report from Scotland about its introduction there in the independence
>>> referendum that looks at the evidence rigorously and contributed to both
>>> Scotland voting unanimously to extend it to all elections and the UK
>>> seemingly heading toward 16-year-olds voting in the referendum on the EU.
>>> See
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.fairvote.org/reforms/right-to-vote-amendment/lowering-the-voting-age/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Note that some studies suggest that someone who can first vote when
>>> exactly 18 is more likely to vote than someone who can first vote when 18
>>> and a month, and so on with decreasing rates for several years -- this
>>> underscores the point about having a lower voting age will increase turnout
>>> in "first vote opportunities" and studies show that this in turn
>>> contributes toward greater likelihood to vote over time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Some folks may be interested to know many states allow citizens who have
>>> relatively recently turned 17 to help choose our next president in
>>> primaries. See states with 17-year-old primary voting here.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.fairvote.org/reforms/universal-voter-registration/17-year-old-primary-voting-2/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Josh Douglas <joshuadouglas at uky.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Prior to the discussion on this list serv, I had began a new project on
>>> the "local right to vote," looking at various franchise-enhancing measures
>>> that have passed at the municipal level.  This follows on my work on the U.S.
>>> constitutional right to vote
>>> <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1079895> and state
>>> constitutional right to vote
>>> <http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2234762>.  My
>>> research so far is preliminary, and it will look at 16- and 17-year old
>>> voting, non-citizen voting, and the like.  I have not found any legal
>>> scholarship on the topic, but there have been various news stories about
>>> the two Maryland towns that have lowered the voting age, as well as a few
>>> cities (including San Francisco) debating the issue.  Here are some
>>> relevant links:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Maryland towns:
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/10/us/politics/students-in-maryland-test-civic-participation-and-win-right-to-vote.html?_r=0
>>>
>>>
>>> Proposal in San Francisco:
>>> http://archives.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/youths-seek-to-lower-voting-age-to-16-in-sf/Content?oid=2916012
>>>
>>> But won’t be on ballot until at least 2016:
>>> http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Plan-to-allow-16-year-olds-to-vote-won-t-be-on-6314581.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> DC proposal to allow 16-year-olds to vote in presidential elections:
>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/16-year-olds-in-dc-could-vote-for-president-in-2016-under-proposal/2015/11/03/3175fede-825d-11e5-8ba6-cec48b74b2a7_story.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There is also some scholarship among family scholars about allowing
>>> "children" to vote, but no systematic analysis on voting and elections, as
>>> far as I can tell.  (I don't know if there are any political science
>>> studies on the topic.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Give me a few months and I'll have something more advanced for you!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Douglas
>>>
>>> Robert G. Lawson & William H. Fortune Associate Professor of Law
>>>
>>> University of Kentucky College of Law
>>>
>>> 620 S. Limestone
>>>
>>> Lexington, KY 40506
>>>
>>> (859) 257-4935
>>>
>>> joshuadouglas at uky.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 7:04 PM, David Adamany <adamany at temple.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was not aware until today's postings of serious discussion to lower
>>> the voting age to 16.   Can anyone point me to a reliable summary of the
>>> activities and arguments surrounding this issue?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My initial reaction is to wonder about the political atmosphere for such
>>> a change.   When Congress voted to submit the 26th Amendment to the states
>>> we have a very large number of veterans who had gone to war when there was
>>> a draft.   (Some veterans volunteered of course, but most, I believe, were
>>> draftees.)   Those would have been veterans of World War I, World War II,
>>> the Korean War, and the war in Viet Nam.   And my rough estimate of their
>>> number (subject to correction by more knowledgeable readers) was between 21
>>> and 24 million.   A great many would have been under 21 years of age at the
>>> time they were drafted or volunteered (but all would have been over 18).
>>> Hence, the argument: old enough to fight, old enough to vote.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What might be the constituency for a 16-year old vote that would have
>>> the natural appeal to Congress and the public?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And has anyone given thought to just how many people would be added to
>>> the electorate and how many to the actual vote by such a change.    My
>>> initial reaction was that parents who vote regularly would be most likely
>>> to facilitate the registration of their 16 and 17 year old children.   On
>>> second thought, it occurred to me that voter registration among that age
>>> cohort might be much larger than at 18 years old because registration would
>>> be very likely to occur in high schools.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A final thought:  If registration were quite high, for the reason above,
>>> would voting also be considerably higher than among 18 to 22 year
>>> olds?   The latter group are often on the move residentially and hence do
>>> not register to vote.   The younger cohort, by contrast, are more likely to
>>> be residentially stable and hence not to be disqualified from voting by
>>> various registration requirements.    Moreover, to the extent that school
>>> buildings are still the site of polling places in many communities, 16 and
>>> 17 year olds might have a quite high turnout rate as compared to those
>>> slightly older.   If these many surmises are correct, there would be
>>> increased potential for changed election results.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am utterly devoid of evidence on these matters, but the thought of a
>>> 16 old vote rule certainly provokes my speculative tendencies.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Can anyone suggest some serious study of any of those issues: the
>>> seriousness of the prospects for such a change, the effect on voter
>>> registration  and turnout, and the potential impact on election outcomes?
>>> I'm sure that members of state legislatures and Congress will be alert to
>>> such implications and will, at the same time, not be faced with the "old
>>> enough to fight, old enough to vote" pressures that surrounded the 26th
>>> Amendment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Adamany
>>>
>>> Laura Carnell Professor of Law
>>>
>>> and Political Science, and
>>>
>>> Chancellor
>>>
>>> 1810 Liacouras Walk, Ste 330
>>>
>>> Temple University
>>>
>>> Philadelphia, PA 19122
>>>
>>> (215) 204-9278
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Adamany
>>>
>>> Laura Carnell Professor of Law
>>>
>>> and Political Science, and
>>>
>>> Chancellor
>>>
>>> 1810 Liacouras Walk, Ste 330
>>>
>>> Temple University
>>>
>>> Philadelphia, PA 19122
>>>
>>> (215) 204-9278
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Rob Richie
>>> Executive Director, FairVote
>>> 6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 240
>>> Takoma Park, MD 20912
>>> rr at fairvote.org  (301) 270-4616  http://www.fairvote.org
>>> *FairVote Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/FairVoteReform>*   *FairVote
>>> Twitter <https://twitter.com/fairvote>*   My Twitter
>>> <https://twitter.com/rob_richie>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Thank you for considering a donation <http://www.fairvote.org/donate>
>>> <http://www.fairvote.org/donate>to support our **reform vision*
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U50uJohIw4c>*. *
>>>
>>> *(Note: Our Combined Federal Campaign number is 10132.)*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Douglas
>>>
>>> Robert G. Lawson & William H. Fortune Associate Professor of Law
>>>
>>> University of Kentucky College of Law
>>>
>>> 620 S. Limestone
>>>
>>> Lexington, KY 40506
>>>
>>> (859) 257-4935
>>>
>>> joshuadouglas at uky.edu
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dr. Carl Klarner
>>
>> Academic / Political Consultant
>>
>> Klarnerpolitics.com
>>
>> Former Associate Professor of Political Science
>>
>> Carl.Klarner at gmail.com
>>
>> Cell: 812-514-9060
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Law-election mailing list
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>> http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Rob Richie
> Executive Director, FairVote
> 6930 Carroll Avenue, Suite 240
> Takoma Park, MD 20912
> rr at fairvote.org  (301) 270-4616  http://www.fairvote.org
> *FairVote Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/FairVoteReform>*   *FairVote
> Twitter <https://twitter.com/fairvote>*   My Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/rob_richie>
>
> Thank you for considering a *donation <http://www.fairvote.org/donate>*
> <http://www.fairvote.org/donate>to support our reform vision
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U50uJohIw4c>.
> (Note: Our Combined Federal Campaign number is 10132.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Law-election mailing list
> Law-election at department-lists.uci.edu
> http://department-lists.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/law-election
>

-- 
Joshua A. Douglas
Robert G. Lawson & William H. Fortune Associate Professor of Law
University of Kentucky College of Law
620 S. Limestone
Lexington, KY 40506
(859) 257-4935
joshuadouglas at uky.edu
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