[EL] Difference between absentee and all mail in balloting

Wed Jul 15 13:22:58 PDT 2020

A Florida-specific caveat to Jim's comment regarding the differentiation
between mail-in voting and absentee balloting: under Florida law, there is
no such difference.  Several years ago, Florida enacted legislation
<http://laws.flrules.org/2016/37> to mostly remove the term "absentee" from
its election statutes and replace it with "vote by mail."  These "vote by
mail" ballots still require voters to apply for a ballot
<http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0101/Sections/0101.62.html>;
Florida does not send mail-in ballots to all voters.  Whatever may be true
of the terminology of other states, "absentee" voting and "vote by mail"
are one and the same concept so far as Florida law goes.

Steve Kolbert
(202) 422-2588
steve.kolbert at gmail.com
@Pronounce_the_T

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 4:18 PM James Bopp Jr <jboppjr at aol.com> wrote:

> Yes, good point.
>
> The Pennsylvania case you cite involved a challenge to election official
> putting ballot collecting stations all over the place, beyond what is
> authorized by Penn law.  Both absentee ballots and mail in ballots are
> placed in these containers.  So the distinction I am making, re
> applications being required, is not pertinent to the challenge they are
> making.  And how voters got a ballot to "mail in" was also not pertinent to
> the challenge the Reps in Penn were making so they inartfully said that.
>
> My point is not about mailing the ballot in but the whole scheme, and they
> are different, I think substantially, because of the application.  Jim
>
> In a message dated 7/15/2020 4:06:41 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> SVladeck at law.utexas.edu writes:
>
>
> No one is suggesting otherwise. I’m merely pointing out that it’s not just
> “the MSM and the Democrats” who say there’s no difference.
>
>
>
> *From:* James Bopp Jr <jboppjr at aol.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 3:04 PM
> *To:* Vladeck, Stephen I <SVladeck at law.utexas.edu>; rhasen at law.uci.edu;
> law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [EL] Difference between absentee and all mail in balloting
>
>
>
> Thank goodness I still get to think for myself.  Jim Bopp
>
> In a message dated 7/15/2020 3:57:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> SVladeck at law.utexas.edu writes:
>
>
>
> For what it’s worth, the Trump campaign has itself recently argued in
> court that there’s no difference, explaining that “[i]n general use,
> however, the terms ‘mail-in’ and ‘absentee’ are used interchangeably to
> discuss the use of the United States Postal Service to deliver ballots to
> and from electors.”
>
>
>
> See footnote 1:
> https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/trump-pa.pdf
>
>
>
> *From:* Law-election <law-election-bounces at department-lists.uci.edu> *On
> Behalf Of *James Bopp Jr
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2020 2:45 PM
> *To:* rhasen at law.uci.edu; law-election at uci.edu
> *Subject:* [EL] Difference between absentee and all mail in balloting
>
>
>
> I just don't understand why the MSM and the Democrats say " *There’s no
> difference between mail-in voting and absentee ballot voting.* "
>
> The big and obvious difference is that, in absentee balloting, the
> registered voter must *apply for the ballot.* This contemporaneous
> application requirement serves many anti-voter fraud purposes.  By
> requiring an application, the vote must, usually, swear that they are
> alive, their current address. and that they are still eligible to vote.
> Furthermore, this creates an audit trail that is examined by election
> officials to compare the applications with the subsequent mail in ballot.
> This provides substantial protections.
>
>
>
> All mail in balloting skips the application and just mails ballots to all
> voters on voter registration rolls, usually those on the "active"
> registration roll.  Of course there are two big problems here, first, we
> lose the benefits of the application, and second, ballots are mailed to
> many voters who are dead, moved or ineligible, flooding the state with
> ballots for the unscrupulous to scoop up and vote.
>
>
>
> And the Democrats want to mail ballots to those on the "ineligible"
> registration list.  These are people who have not voted in the last 2
> elections and *election officials have mailed them a post card that was
> returned as undeliverable.* So more ballots are flooding the state --
> sent to people we already know are not there.
>
>
>
> Now, it may be that one would like to argue over whether an application is
> helpful to prevent voter fraud or whether it is prudent to send ballots to
> addresses of voters we already know are not there, but surely it is
> indefensible, but maybe from the Democrats perspective useful, to say there
> is not difference between the two.  Jim Bopp
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/15/2020 11:29:32 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> rhasen at law.uci.edu writes:
>
>
> “Florida GOP doctors Trump tweet to solve mail-in voting problem”
> <https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113106>
>
> Posted on July 15, 2020 8:01 am <https://electionlawblog.org/?p=113106>
> by *Rick Hasen* <https://electionlawblog.org/?author=3>
>
> Politico:
> <https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/15/florida-mail-in-voting-trump-362519>
>
> *President Donald Trump’s harsh rhetoric against mail-in voting is causing
> a big problem for Florida Republicans, who once dominated the practice
> here.*
>
> *So the state GOP came up with a solution: They doctored one of Trump’s
> tweets on the issue to remove the stigma.*
>
> *In a mass-solicitation designed to boost flagging interest in registering
> to vote by mail, the Republican Party of Florida featured a Trump tweet
> from June 28 that praised absentee ballots but that had his opposition to
> mail-in voting strategically edited out.*
>
> *“Absentee Ballots are fine. A person has to go through a process to get
> and use them,” Trump said in the tweet
> <https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1277429217190428673>. The rest
> of the quote was blurred out: “Mail-In Voting, on the other hand, will lead
> to the most corrupt Election is USA history. Bad things happen with
> Mail-Ins. Just look at Special Election in Patterson, N.J. 19% of Ballots a
> FRAUD.”*
>
> *There’s no difference between mail-in voting and absentee ballot voting.
> Trump is claiming a distinction that does not exist, all the
> while exaggerating
> <https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/885074932/n-j-election-fraud-case-draws-a-trump-tweet-but-suggests-safeguards-are-working> the
> fraud risks, prevalence and effects of voting by mail.*
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