Professor Hasen Speaks About “Safeguarding Democracy Project”
Professor Hasen Speaks to CNN about January 6, the risks of election subversion in 2024, and the new “Safeguarding Democracy Project” at UCLA Law.
The Safeguarding Democracy Project at UCLA Law promotes research, collaboration, and advocacy aimed at ensuring continued free and fair elections in the United States. The Project aims to protect the cornerstone of American democracy: that all eligible voters, and only eligible voters, will be able to freely cast a vote that will be fairly and accurately counted, with the winner of the election peacefully taking office and accepted as legitimate. It also focuses on bolstering the rule of law, the right to vote, and democratic institutions and norms.
Under the leadership of UCLA Law Professor Richard L. Hasen, one of the nation’s leading election law scholars, the Safeguarding Democracy Project is built upon the premise that tackling issues of U.S. election integrity must be collaborative: across ideologies, across scholarly disciplines, and as a bridge between theory and practice.
The Safeguarding Democracy Project brings together in dialogue scholars, election administrators, legislators, lawyers, voting rights advocates, and concerned citizens to develop practical solutions to urgent problems. It holds conferences, produces reports, and files legal briefs to educate and serve the public good.
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Who We Are
- Director
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SDP Advisory Board (institutional affiliations for identification purposes only. THE VIEWS OF THE SAFEGUARDING DEMOCRACY PROJECT DO NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF INDIVIDUAL ADVISORY BOARD MEMBERS.)
Floyd Abrams
Senior Counsel, Cahill Gordon & Reindel LLPAdam Ambrogi
Senior Director for Voting and Elections, League of Women Voters of the United StatesAndrew W. Appel
Eugene Higgins Professor of Computer Science, Princeton UniversityBob Bauer
Former White House Counsel and General Counsel to Obama for America (2008 and 2012) Presidential Campaigns; Co-Chair, Presidential Commission on Election Administration (2013-2014); Co-Chair, Election Official Legal Defense Network (2021-present); Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence, NYU Law SchoolGuy-Uriel Charles
Charles J. Ogletree, Jr. Professor of Law, Harvard UniversityErwin Chemerinsky
Dean and Jesse H. Choper Distinguished Professor of Law, UC BerkeleyJudd Choate
State Election Director, Colorado Department of StateDanielle K. Citron
Jefferson Scholars Foundation Schenck Distinguished Professor in Law, University of VirginiaJulie Cohen
Mark Claster Mamolen Professor of Law and Technology, Georgetown UniversityLouis DeSipio
Professor of Political Science and Chicano/Latino Studies, UC IrvineLarry Diamond
Senior Fellow, The Hoover Institution and the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, Stanford UniversityRenée DiResta
Technical Research Manager, Stanford Internet Observatory, Stanford UniversityJoan Donovan
Assistant Professor of Journalism and Emerging Media Studies, College of Communications, Boston UniversityPam Fessler
Former NPR Voting Rights CorrespondentJoseph Fishkin
Professor of Law, UCLAEdward B. Foley
Professor and Charles W. Ebersold and Florence Whitcomb Ebersold Chair in Constitutional Law, Ohio State UniversityJohn C. Fortier
Senior Fellow, American Enterprise InstituteBenjamin Ginsberg
Former Counsel to Bush-Cheney (2000 and 2004) and Romney (2008 and 2012) Presidential Campaigns; Distinguished Visiting Fellow, The Hoover Institution, Stanford University; Co-Chair, Election Officials Legal Defense NetworkSara Wallace Goodman
Professor of Political Science, UC IrvineMichele Bratcher Goodwin
Linda D. & Timothy J. O’Neill Professor of Constitutional Law and Global Health Policy, Georgetown UniversityTrey Grayson
Former Secretary of State, Commonwealth of Kentucky (2004-11); Member, Frost Brown ToddGretchen Helmke
Thomas H. Jackson Distinguished University Professor, University of RochesterElizabeth Howard
Deputy Director, Elections and Government Program, Democracy, Brennan Center for JusticeSamuel Issacharoff
Bonnie and Richard Reiss Professor of Constitutional Law, New York UniversityDavid Kaye
Clinical Professor of Law and Director, International Justice Clinic, UC IrvineNeal Kelley
Registrar of Voters, Orange County, CA (Ret).Claire Jean Kim
Professor of Political Science and Asian American Studies, UC IrvineKate Klonick
Assistant Professor of Law, St. John’s UniversityJack I. Lerner
Clinical Professor of Law, UC IrvineSteven Levitsky
David Rockefeller Professor of Latin American Studies and Professor of Government, Harvard UniversityLeah Litman
Professor of Law, University of MichiganSarah Longwell
CEO, Longwell Partners; Publisher, The BulwarkJ. Michael Luttig
Former Judge, United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth CircuitMatthew Masterson
Former Commissioner, U.S. Election Assistance Commission and Senior Cybersecurity Advisor at the Department of Homeland Security; Director of Information Integrity, Microsoft Democracy ForwardJon D. Michaels
Professor of Law, UCLAMichael T. Morley
Associate Professor of Law, Florida State UniversityDerek T. Muller
Professor of Law, University of Notre DameJanai Nelson
President and Director-Counsel, NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc. (LDF)Brendan Nyhan
James O. Freedman Presidential Professor, Professor of Government, Dartmouth CollegeNorman J. Ornstein
Emeritus Scholar, American Enterprise InstituteNina Perales
Vice President of Litigation, Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF)Nathaniel Persily
James B. McClatchy Professor of Law, Stanford UniversityRichard H. Pildes
Sudler Family Professor of Constitutional Law, New York UniversityBertrall Ross
Professor of Law, University of VirginiaAlex Stamos
Director, Stanford Internet Observatory; Former Chief Security Officer, FacebookCharles Stewart III
Kenan Sahin Distinguished Professor of Political Science, Massachusetts Institute of TechnologyMichael Tesler
Professor of Political Science, UC IrvineFranita Tolson
George T. and Harriet E. Pfleger Chair in Law, University of Southern CaliforniaLynn Vavreck
Marvin Hoffenberg Professor of American Politics, UCLAAmy Wilentz
Author and Professor of English (Literary Journalism), UC IrvineAdam Winkler
Connell Professor of Law, UCLA
Past Events
Apr. 10: Partisan Primaries, Polarization, and the Risks of Extremism
Recording here.
Julia Azari, Marquette University, Ned Foley, Ohio State University, Moritz College of Law, Seth Masket, Denver University, and Rick Pildes, NYU Law School
Richard L. Hasen, moderator (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA)
Mar. 31: Combatting False Election Information: Lessons from 2024 and a Look to the Future
Recording here.
Alice Marwick, Director of Research, Data & Society, UNC Chapel Hill, Kate Starbird, University of Washington, and Joshua Tucker, NYU.
Richard L. Hasen, moderator (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA)
Mar. 4: What Do Documentary Proof of Citizenship Requirements for Voter Registration Accomplish?
Recording here.
Adrian Fontes, Arizona Secretary of State, Walter Olson, Senior Fellow at the Cato Institute, and Nina Perales, Vice President of Litigation, MALDEF (Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund)
Richard L. Hasen, moderator (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA)
Feb. 13: Finding Common Ground on Modernizing Voter Registration
Recording here.
Christina Adkins, Director of Elections, Texas Secretary of State's Office, Judd Choate, Director of Elections in Colorado, and Charles H. Stewart III, MIT.
Richard L. Hasen, moderator (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA)
Jan. 28: Fair Elections and Voting Rights: What’s Ahead in the Next Four Years?
Recording here.
Amy Gardner, The Washington Post, Pamela Karlan, Stanford Law School, Stephen Richer, Harvard Kennedy School
Richard L. Hasen, moderator (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA)
Oct. 21: A.I., Social Media, the Information Environment and the 2024 Elections
Monday, October 21, Webinar
Recording here.
Co-sponsored by the Institute for Technology, Law & Policy, UCLA Law
Kate Klonick (St. John's University School of Law), Brendan Nyhan (Dartmouth) and Nate Persily (Stanford Law School)
Richard L. Hasen, moderator (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA)
Oct. 15: Are We Ready for a Fair and Legitimate Election?
Tuesday, October 15, at the UCLA Hammer Museum
Recording here.
Co-presented with the Hammer Forum
Are election administrators up to the task of holding elections and fairly counting votes when they are subject to unprecedented public scrutiny and face possible harassment? Will delays in reporting vote totals undermine the public's confidence in election results, regardless of how well the election is administered? What are the risks to acceptance of election results and peaceful transitions of power between election day and January 6, 2025, when Congress counts the states’ Electoral College votes? Moderated by Rick Hasen, UCLA Law. Panelists: Larry Diamond, Stanford University, Ben Ginsberg, Stanford University, Rachel Kleinfeld, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Franita Tolson, USC Law.
Oct. 9: Finding Common Ground in Election Law
Wednesday, October 9
Recording here.
Co-sponsored by the Office of the Dean, UCLA Law
Lisa Manheim (University of Washington School of Law), Derek T. Muller (Notre Dame Law School), and Richard L. Hasen (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, moderator)
Oct. 8: The United States Electoral College and Fair Elections
Tuesday, October 8 at the UCLA Hammer Museum
Recording here.
Co-presented with the Hammer Forum
Why does the United States use the Electoral College for choosing the President? Is the Electoral College a fair way to choose a President? What specific risks does the method for choosing electors pose for free and fair elections? How likely is the United States to adopt a national popular vote instead of the Electoral College? Moderated by Rick Hasen, UCLA Law. Panelists: Joey Fishkin, UCLA Law; Amanda Hollis-Brusky, Pomona College; Derek Muller, University of Notre Dame.
Sept. 25: One Person, One Vote?
Wednesday, September 25 at the UCLA Hammer Museum
Co-presented with the Hammer Forum
At a time when many Americans question democratic institutions, One Person, One Vote? unveils the complexities of the Electoral College, the uniquely American and often misunderstood mechanism for electing a president. The documentary follows four presidential electors representing different parties in Colorado during the intense 2020 election.
2024. dir. Maximina Juson. Color. 78 minutes.
Sept. 17: Democracy and Risks to the 2024 Elections
Co-presented with the Hammer Forum and the David J. Epstein Program in Public Interest Law & Policy, UCLA Law
Can the United States conduct a free and fair election in November in which the public will have confidence? Are concerns about foreign interference, deep fakes, and disinformation serious or overblown? Is participation equally open to minority voters? What are the risks to U.S. democracy if significant portions of the public do not accept the election results as legitimate? Moderated by Rick Hasen, UCLA Law. Panelists: Leah Aden, NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund; John Fortier, American Enterprise Institute; Yoel Roth, The Match Group.
Sept. 12: From Here to There: How States Can and Should Certify the Results of the 2024 Elections
Thursday, September 12
Recording here.
Ben Berwick, Head of Election Law & Litigation Team & Counsel (Protect Democracy), Lauren Miller Karalunas, (Brennan Center for Justice), and Michael Morley (Florida State University College of Law)
Richard L. Hasen, moderator (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA)
Sept. 4: Voters, Information, and the 2024 U.S. Elections
Presented by the Institute for Technology, Law & Policy, co-sponsored by the Safeguarding Democracy Project
Richard L. Hasen (Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project, UCLA Law and Michael Karanicolas, Executive Director, Institute for Technology, Law & Policy, UCLA Law)
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2023-24
July 10 - The Hammer Museum - Under the Gavel: The U.S. Supreme Court's Most Recent Term in Review
Watch the recording here.
Co-presented with the Safeguarding Democracy Project
With rulings on major issues expected by the start of summer 2024, the United States Supreme Court is once again at the center of key legal and policy debates. An all-star panel of legal scholars analyzes the meaning and implications of the latest Supreme Court cases, including United States v. Rahimi on gun rights, FDA v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine and Moyle v. United States on reproductive rights, the Netchoice cases on regulating social media companies under the First Amendment, Trump v. United States on presidential immunity for criminal acts, and Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo on the power of the administrative state. The panelists will also consider the implications of these rulings for the presidential election season.
Panelists include: Cary Franklin, the McDonald/Wright Chair of Law Faculty Director of the Center on Reproductive Health, Law, and Policy and Faculty Director of the Williams Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles; Justin Levitt, the White House's first Senior Policy Advisor for Democracy and Voting Rights (2021-22) and Professor of Law at Loyola Marymount University; Eugene Volokh, the Gary T. Schwartz Distinguished Professor of Law at the University of California, Los Angeles and Senior Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution; and Kimberly West-Faulcon, the James P. Bradley Chair in Constitutional Law at Loyola Marymount University. Moderated by Rick Hasen, Professor of Law and Political Science and Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project at the University of California, Los Angeles.
May 9 - War Game at the Hammer Museum
The Hammer Museum, co-presented by the UCLA Law Safeguarding Democracy Project, invites you to a pre-release screening of 2024 Sundance Official Selection Documentary WAR GAME, followed by a conversation moderated by UCLA professor and legal scholar Rick Hasen with directors Jesse Moss and Tony Gerber, and film participants former Governor of Montana Steve Bullock, US Senator Heidi Heitkamp, Major General (Ret.) Linda Singh, former Deputy Chief of Staff at the Department of Homeland Security Elizabeth Neumann, Vet Voice Foundation CEO Janessa Goldbeck, and Fascination Lab Co-Founder Ben Radd.
Ticketing: Admission is free. Your seat will be assigned to you when you pick up your ticket at the box office. Seats are assigned on a first come, first served basis. Box office opens one hour before the event.
Watch the Q&A with the filmmakers and Rick Hasen here.
April 16 - Fireside Chat with California Attorney General Rob Bonta
and Safeguarding Democracy Project Director, Rick Hasen
Co-Sponsored by the American Bar Association's Defending Democracy Initiative
Moderated by Stephen Cobb (ABA Democracy Fellow & Cozen O'Connor Member)
April 9 - Race and the Risk of Election Subversion
Sophia Lin Lakin (ACLU), Spencer Overton (George Washington University Law School), Sonni Waknin (UCLA Voting Rights Project)
March 14 - Business's Role in Preventing Democratic Backsliding Webinar
Daniella Ballou-Aares (Leadership Now Project), Richard Eidlin (Business for America), Ben Ginsberg (Hoover Institution, Stanford), moderated by Richard H. Pildes (NYU School of Law)
February 20 - Lessons and Warning Signs: A Conversation with a January 6th Investigator
Organized by the Promise Institute for Human Rights co-sponsored by the Safeguarding Democracy Project
With introductions by Director of the International & Comparative Law Program, Jess Peake, the conversation will feature Sandeep Prasanna, a UCLA Law alumnus and former January 6th investigative counsel, in discussion with Rick Hasen, Director of the Safeguarding Democracy Project.
February 15 - A Real Right to Vote with Richard L. Hasen & Erwin Chemerinsky
In-person at the Hammer Museum
February 6 - 1pm What Can We Do to Have a Fair and Safe Election in 2024?
Renee DiResta (Stanford Internet Observatory), Kate Klonick (St John’s University Law School), Charles Stewart III (MIT), and Kim Wyman (Bipartisan Policy Center)
Moderated by Richard L. Hasen, Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project
January 23 - The Sedition Hunters: How January 6th Broke the Justice System
Ryan J. Reilly (NBC News) in conversation with Richard L. Hasen, Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project
November 16 - Covering the Risks to Elections on the State and Local Level: Views from the Beat Reporters
- Jonathan Lai (Philadelphia Inquirer, Politico)
- Carrie Levine (Votebeat)
- Patrick Marley (WaPo)
- Yvonne Wingett Sanchez (WaPo)
- Moderated by Pamela Fessler (retired from NPR)
October 20 - The Law and Politics of Potentially Disqualifying Donald Trump from Running for President
Online Conference
Conference: The Law and Politics of Potentially Disqualifying Donald Trump from Running for President
UCLA Law’s Safeguarding Democracy Project
Conference Agenda
Introduction
- Richard L. Hasen
Deciding on Presidential Disqualification: Who, How, When, and Where?
- Edward B. Foley
- Derek Muller
- Lisa Manheim
- Moderator: Rebecca Green
The Politics of Candidate Disqualification: Here and Abroad
- Gretchen Helmke
- Sam Issacharoff
- Daniel Ziblatt
- Moderator: Julia Azari
Does Section 3 of the 14th Amendment Bar Trump from Holding Office?
- Mark Graber
- Sherrilyn Ifill
- Kurt Lash
- Moderator: Guy Charles
Conclusion: Roundtable Discussion and Q & A with All the Participants
Moderator: Richard L. Hasen
October 17 - The Trump Prosecutions, the First Amendment, and Election Interference
- Genevieve Lakier (University of Chicago, via Zoom)
- Eugene Volokh (UCLA)
- Moderated by Richard L. Hasen
October 12 - The Roberts Court and American Democracy
Webinar
- Joan Biskupic (CNN Legal Analyst and author)
- Moderated by Richard L. Hasen
September, 26 - How Should Platforms Handle Election Speech and Disinformation in 2024?
Webinar
- Katie Harbath (Anchor Change)
- Josh Lawson (Advisor to the Aspen Institute on A.I. and democracy-related risk, formerly of Meta)
- Yoel Roth (formerly of Twitter)
- Brandon Tucker (Color of Change)
- Moderated by Richard L. Hasen
September 5 - The Trump Indictments, the 2024 Elections, and Public Peace
Webinar
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2022-23
U.S. Democracy and the Independent State Legislature Theory after the Supreme Court’s Moore v. Harper Decision
UCLA Law’s Safeguarding Democracy Project hosted a flash webinar, on June 28, 2023 featuring leading election law scholars:
- Derek T. Muller, Notre Dame Law (beginning July 1)
- Richard H. Pildes, NYU School of Law
- Bertrall Ross, University of Virginia Law
- Carolyn Shapiro, Chicago-Kent College of Law
- Richard L. Hasen (moderator, Professor, UCLA Law and Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project)
On June 27, the Supreme Court on a 6-3 vote in Moore v. Harper rejected the most extreme version of the “independent state legislature theory” that could have upended U.S. elections. But the Court preserved a role for itself in reviewing state court decisions applying state election laws in presidential and congressional elections. What does this opinion mean for the future of American democracy? How likely is it that it will lead to more federal court intervention into U.S. elections? Why did the Court decide the case when it appeared to some to be moot?
April 4 - Confronting the Insider Threat on Election Security and Protecting Election Officials- Panelists Judd Choate and Liz Howard
- Moderator Rick Hasen
March 17, 2023 - Can American Democracy Survive the 2024 Elections?
The Safeguarding Democracy Project at UCLA School of Law convened leading election officials, election administrators, scholars, lawyers, and community leaders in a cross-ideological, interdisciplinary conversation to consider ongoing threats to free and fair elections in the United States, and what may be done for a safe and successful 2024 U.S. presidential election.
More information | Conference schedule
March 2, 2023 - Meme Wars: The Untold Story of the Online Battles Upending Democracy in AmericaCo-Sponsored with UCLA Law's Institute for Technology, Law & Policy
- Conversation between Joan Donovan and Rick Hasen
February 16, 2023 - Laboratories Against Democracy- Conversation between Jake Grumbach and Rick Hasen
January 26, 2023 - What “Ultra” Can Teach Us About Threats to American Democracy Today- Conversation between Rachel Maddow and Rick Hasen
- Introduction by Dean, Russell Korobkin
November 22, 2022 - Lessons for Democracy from the 2022 Midterm Elections
Speakers
- Rick Hasen - Director, Safeguarding Democracy Project and Professor of Law @UCLA School of Law
- Chris Tausanovitch - Associate Professor, Political Science @UCLA Political Science
- Lynn Vavreck - Marvin Hoffenberg Professor of American Politics and Public Policy @UCLA Political Science
October 27, 2022 - Trump, Trumpism, and the Future of American Democracy
A conversation with:
October 14, 2022 - Conference with Stanford's Program on Democracy and the Internet, "Should Donald Trump be Returned to Social Media?"
The Program on Democracy and the Internet (PDI) at Stanford University and UCLA Law’s Safeguarding Democracy Project will host a half-day streamed conference, “Should Donald Trump Be Returned to Social Media?” Leading scholars in the areas of cyber law, election law, constitutional law, and human rights law will discuss whether former President Donald J. Trump should be restored to Twitter, Facebook, and YouTube if he declares that he is a candidate for the Presidency. Although at this moment that question is a private matter for the companies, they will be making the decision in the shadow of recent legislation in Florida and Texas (currently subject to First Amendment litigation) that would require certain social media companies to carry politicians’ speech under some circumstances. The conference will use this case study to foster a larger dialogue about the effects of deplatforming and replatforming political figures and discuss the key considerations involved in these decisions implicating free speech and safeguarding democracy.
You may download papers for the conference at this link.
Conference speakers:
- Chinmayi Arun, Yale Law School
- Guy Charles, Harvard Law School
- Renee DiResta, Stanford Internet Observatory
- evelyn douek, Stanford Law School
- Katie Fallow, Knight First Amendment Institute
- Mary Ann Franks, University of Miami Law School
- Niall Ferguson, Stanford, Hoover Institution
- Katie Harbath, Anchor Change
- Rick Hasen, UCLA School of Law
- David Kaye, UCI School of Law
- Genevieve Lakier, University of Chicago Law School
- Nathaniel Persily, Stanford Law School
- Eugene Volokh, UCLA School of Law
- Jonathan Zittrain, Harvard Law School
September 29, 2022 - Lessons from the January 6 Committee: A conversation with Representative Adam Schiff
Featuring:
September 20, 2022 - Special From the Frontlines: The United States Supreme Court and American Democracy: View of Three Journalists
Featuring:
- Interim Dean Russell Korobkin (Intro.)
- Joan Biskupic
- Adam Liptak
- Dahlia Lithwick
- Richard L. Hasen (moderator)
August 25, 2022 - Moore v. Harper, the Independent State Legislature Theory and Potential Threats to American Democracy
Featuring:
- Vikram D. Amar
- Derek T. Muller
- Richard H. Pildes
- Carolyn Shapiro
- Franita Tolson
- Richard L. Hasen (moderator)
August 24, 2022 - Can Proposed New Congressional Legislation on Counting Electoral College Votes Lessen the Risk of Election Subversion?
Featuring:
- Ambassador Norman Eisen (ret.)
- Edward B. (Ned) Foley
- Rebecca Green
- J. Michael Luttig
- Janai Nelson '96
- Richard L. Hasen (moderator)
Reports and Resources
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Reports
24 for '24: Urgent Recommendations in Law, Media, Politics, and Tech for Fair and Legitimate 2024 U.S. Elections report (September 2023, Ad Hoc Committee for 2024 Election Fairness and Legitimacy)
Fair Elections During a Crisis report (April 2020, Ad Hoc Committee for 2020 Election Fairness and Legitimacy)
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Videos
Rick Hasen on CNN News Central Talking About Trump Indictment and American Democracy 8/3/23
From the Fair Elections and Free Speech CenterIs the US. Constitution Up to the Task of Preserving American Democracy? (Jack Balkin, Michele Goodwin, Michael Klarman (Rick Hasen moderator))
Symposium: Election Subversion: Is U.S. Democracy in Danger? (Julia Azari, Edward Foley, Mara Liasson, Bob Bauer, Guy-Uriel Charles, Larry Diamond, Ben Ginsberg, Rick Hasen, Gretchen Helmke, Steve Levisky, Isabel Longoria, Sarah Longwell, Michael Morley, Janai Nelson, Rick Pildes, Brad Raffensperger)
Disinformation in American Elections, Part I: Election Officials (Jocelyn Benson, Neal Kelley (Tammy Patrick moderator))
Disinformation in American Elections, Part II: Legal Scholars (Danielle Citron, Spencer Overton, Nate Persily (Rick Hasen moderator)) Disinformation in American Elections, Part III: Social Scientists (Joan Donovan, Renee DiResta, Brendan Nyhan (Pam Fessler moderator))
What Can and Should Journalists Do to Prevent Election Subversion and Another January 6? (Bart Gellman, Jessica Huseman, Margaret Sullivan (Rick Hasen moderator))
